Sactown Royalty

Portland's Cowboy fan - January 23, 2012 reply

we actually get Chalupas here lol

Meh, it's free food. Tacos, Chalupas, still seems to do the same to us.

Portland's Cowboy fan - January 23, 2012 reply

Yeah true. First time I'm a little happy they gave up free food

Atleast I got something out of going lol

FFFFUUUUU

Yup. Think that sums up my full range of emotions watching this game.

Thats exactly how I was in the 2nd and 3rd quarter.

That 2nd quarter made me wana just destroy every single pillow in my house, including beating up my desk as well as doing 100pushups to get the anger out.

Getting kind of sick of all the blowouts guys

(sigh) Is it too much to ask for competitive losses?

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Exactly. I mean jeez look at the warriors they’re losing so much yet all of their losses are competitive and hard fought. Why can’t ours be like that ,_,

Thats all I was hoping for this year

Stay competitive in the losses and hope to pull out enough wins to be close to the playoff picture.

SharkKings49 - January 24, 2012 reply

It kills me when people talk about what an amazing defender Donte is

He has the length and athleticism to be a great defender, but he just isn’t. And the coach needs to sit his but down every time he starts jacking up threes. This is his fourth year in the league and he still doesn’t get that he is not a good outside shooter. Very frustrating to see him starting.

Uh...that's Carmichael Dave.

Greene and JT will be gone soon.

Or maybe Dave's wife

heh

you really think JT is gonna be gone…You cannot compare half this team to JT as far as skills wise..

Widowwolf - January 23, 2012 reply

???

Are you saying that JT is skilled? JT is probably the least skilled player on the court at any given time. His effort is what brings him up from terrible to mediocre.

Not so.

JT has small hands, and struggles to rebound, but he gets in the paint pretty well, is an above average passer for a back up PF, and gets to the line pretty well.

killerking - January 24, 2012 reply

LOL so you are saying Donte, Outlaw, Honeycutt are more skilled and better then JT this year..LOL you are funny..
JT in team stats sits

FG% – 1st still
Total Rebounds – 5th
Assists – 8
Steals – 10th
Blocks – 8th
Turn Overs – 4
Fouls – 6th
Points per game – 6th

While he might not be a starter on a championship team, you cannot deny his skills.
The people I would not be willing to give up before JT due to his current skills + cost
I am not looking at past stats – Only current stats and pay.
DMC
Reke
Maybe Hayes (If he gets back to where he was)
Maybe Thornton (If he gets back to last years effectiveness) – Shooters are a dime a dozen at his stats currently.

Perhaps a slight exageration in my innitial post due to the skill level of th rest of our team.

But seriously, JT a skill player? That is the argument? Jason Thompson is a skilled player? Say it out loud before you stone me with his stats this year.

Yes and he is getting better every year..Tell me who else on the current team that is not listed above you would rather have at the contract price, amount of years over JT. JT has a lot of skills- Why do you think so many other teams want him..Height does not a basketball player make

Size, effort, decision making

When did I say anything about wanting him at a certain price. The point is that if you are arguing to keep him here skill is not his selling point.

He is skilled enough to be a starter on an NBA team. Is he Dwight Howard or Blake griffin. No, but he does have basketball skills and they are better then more then 1/2 the big men in the league. His Per at Center is showing at 15.96 which is good for 23rd amongst all centers in league..And currently he takes on more PF’s then Centers when on the court with DMC. Hickson is 65th amoungst all PF’s..Yes he is skilled

Getting better every year?

JT per 36 min stats:
08-09: Reb: 9.5, AST: 1.5, PTS: 14.2
09-10: Reb: 9.7, AST: 1.9, PTS: 14.3
10-11: Reb: 9.4, AST: 1.8, PTS: 13.7
11-12: Reb: 8.9, AST: 1.6, PTS: 12.8

His shooting percentage has gone up but this is due to his decision making improving. Are you considering playing within ones self a skill?

And his consistency and minutes have been so erratic, you expect him to put up full time consistent starter #‘s..I am considering how much improvement he has made as a basketball player of the years . Skill is being able to get those #’s and be better offensively/defensively..Look you don’t like JT I get it..But you cant say he doesn’t have some decent skills or he wouldn’t be in the NBA today

Look, you like JT, I get it. But you can’t say he hasn’t improved his strength, conditioning and desicion making or he wouldn’t be n the NBA today.

WHat

what are you saying here besides tweakign my words around

Perhaps you should define what you think "skilled" means?

You've got to be joking Blue, or you need to sober up

That description fits Hickson way more than JT, except the part where he nears mediocre.
Just comparing the 2, JT is the better shooter, passer, and ball handler. JJ wins at jumping, that is not a skill.

+1

JT is a near perfect back up big man. He knows his role and works hard. JJ has let me down this year, or maybe I expected to much out of JJ. Either way, at this moment JT is the better big and may have been the most consistant big so far this year (although Cousins has been the better player).

SharkKings49 - January 24, 2012 reply

Per 36 min career stats for the two.

JT: FG% 49.2 Reb 9.5 AST 1.7 PTS 14
JJ: FG% 48.8 Reb 9.8 AST 1.1 PTS 15.3

Yes

Hickson has not played well this year. I don’t believe that is because he is less skilled than JT. He has had terrible decision making where JT has had great decision making. JT is fine for his price and role. I just don’t believe basket ball skills are his strong points. Strength, conditioning, work ethic and decision making are what makes him what he is.

This is a weird conversation

I see Hickson as more athletic, but JT as more skilled. But again, I think it depends on how you define “skills”.

I really don't think either are very skilled basketball players personally.

And if we are to get to the bottom of this you are correct otis. We need to define each of our definitions of skilled. But that is hard and way too much like work.

Here is where I would post a GIF to distract you so I don’t have to do that.

I agree with you Otis

In comparing the JJ and JT it is pretty clear. JJ is more athletic than JT, but JT is more skilled than JJ.

Though I would say that the athleticism is really only in the area of jumping. I think that JT is extremely well conditioned and strong.

JJ either has not developed some potential or is more of pure athlete with less upside than JT.

CowbellKings - January 24, 2012 reply

How is that clear?

Whats even more frustrating is that the wrong people are shooting 3s. Jimmer was on fire today 3-4 from 3, he should of gotten more 3point plays ran for him to continue burning his fire, instead they cool it off with water and decide to give Greene wide open to miss 5 open shots from 3. Bloody ridiculous

Noble_Bloodlines - January 23, 2012 reply

I think people go more on his potential than what he actually does on D.

Aykis16 - January 23, 2012 reply

I think this is the case for our entire roster

All I hear is how good Salmon's D is

and the guy has been roasted all season.

Noble_Bloodlines - January 23, 2012 reply

Spends too much time on Twitter.

Should be watching game film lol

I have believed this forever about Donte

All the physical talent in the world, none of the skill.

It's about focused effort for him

He has a good game, gets more minutes and becomes almost invisible.

Agree 100%

You look at him and think he should be a defensive stopper with his size and speed at the 3. But it doesn’t materialize. Right now I’d actually like to see Honeycutt spending more time at the three. hard to imagine him doing much worse than Salmons or Donte.

Not just his D, but his whole game as only been about potential at this point

SharkKings49 - January 24, 2012 reply

Is it really that people think he is an "amazing defender"?

Or is that he is the only player on the team with the ability to guard big small forwards? Whether he is good at it or not, he’s better than anything else we got.

Don’t blame the fans for reaching. Blame Geoff Petrie or the Maloofs for forcing us to reach.

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

I guess

But I can absolutely blame coaching for not demanding that he stop jacking up threes. Smart promised accountability, and that’s an easy call.

True

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Although

It’s possible he hits them all day in practice so Smart lets him do it in the game thinking they’ll go in.

I’m not saying it’s right. Just throwing it out there

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Maybe someone needs to introduce him to BB Refernce

The 23% for the season might give him a clue that practice doesn’t count. Then again, lots of mediocre players look amazing when they play against our defense. Maybe if Donte was playing against the Kings he’d be shooting 50%.

We can't let him see basketball reference

He’ll never let anyone shoot anything

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

And, what do you base your opinion on? Because Wallace scored 20pts?

Wallace had 25pts in the first game and Donte didn’t even play. Donte covered Wallace for the 1st 6 minutes of both the 1st and 3rd quarters of this game and Wallace scored 3 pts. Yes, Wallace scored on him in that bad stretch at the end of the 2nd though some of those pts came on break aways after turnovers. Except of that one break away basket, half of Wallace’s pts came while Donte was on the bench.

And, if we’re going to put all the defensive failures on the guy that’s supposed to be defending him, what’s that say about Tyreke’s defense of Crawford and Felton.

Wallace had 8 of his 9 baskets at the rim, and other than the fast break points what does that say about our interior defense. Portland’s guards and wing had help inside. Wallace has been beating defenders for years, so if you know of someone who could have stopped him an entire game without any help around the basket, please let me know.

Not putting all of this on Donte's back at all

What I am saying is that when you have a guy who four years after he came into the league still jacks up 3 pointers despite the fact that he’s never had good numbers, that averages less than 5 rebounds per 36 minutes despite his size and agility, and that averages more turnovers per 36 than assists, with a career average PER of less than 10, his defense better be absolutely freaking incredible to deserve floor time. It’s the only thing he has going for him. And it is not. Period. is he decent at times defensively? I guess. But his defense is not anywhere near good enough to justify his minutes. He is not a shut down defender or even close to it. Garcia has a better defensive rating than Green does.

It amazes me that people still want Greene in the rotation

After his small sample size outburst of good play at the start of the season, he’s slowly declined to his normal level of sub-mediocre play.

Only redeeming quality Donte has going for him

Is he’s still young.

This other redeeming quality...

That he has Salmons and Outlaw to make him look better.

So is Hassan Whiteside and Hasheem Thabeet

I feel like I need to always add the disclaimer

That I really like Donté Greene, the person.

The person is awesome

which is why I hope something clicks and he can start being able to contribute consistently.

I agree completely.

Not a better person or team mate around.

That's like telling your best friend that his girlfriend has a great personality...

LOL

I guess that is a backhanded compliment. “I like everything about Donté except for the stuff that really matters.”

Yes, but when Donte does well and gets starter minutes

He tends to dissappear.
More often than not he’s a spectator, a ball watcher on the defensive boards. Wallace is not a guy that has him dragged that far out of the paint.

I still think the biggest problem right now, well one of the two, is just not making shots. That’s leading to either fast breaks or just the pressure offense that amounts to the same thing.

Then there’s the getting careless with the ball, trying to win one-on-one just when point pressure calls for cool and collected offense.

I was also dissappointed in how few times we passed the ball up the court last night.

It's very difficult to argue your points.

I simply had a problem with blaming Donte or any one player because Wallace was 9 of 12 with 8 of 10 baskets coming at the rim.

I can’t really understand Donte’s penchant for taking and missing so many threes. I will say that according to 82games.com, 50% of Donte’s crunch time shots come on the long jumper with 21-24 seconds on the 24 sec clock. The other 50% come in the 16-20 sec range. I can’t tell you what percentage of his shots last night were crunch time shots.

I will also say that all of his best rebounding games came while he was playing the 4. Which is when he’s playing closer to the basket and not defending the 3pt shot.

Ladies and gentlemen

I present IT, Tyreke, Salmons and Outlaw.

From left to right: Salmons. Outlaw. Greene.

AK47 is looking better and better right about now

Noble_Bloodlines - January 23, 2012 reply

but the Kings are looking worse and worse

Could those be related?

They're looking worse and worse

compared to what??

They’ve gone .500 over the last 4 games!!!

Maybe they think basketball is played with these.

Slam_Dunk - January 24, 2012 reply

zag392009 - January 23, 2012 reply

Maybe we can sign this guy to replace Salmons.

I'd prefer

appropriate "arrow" placement

Took me a minute...

He'll bring VETERAN LEADERSHIP

was actually going to post the youtube video if this

rec for finding the GIF, I’m sure I’ll use it again sometime this season.

Mad D - January 24, 2012 reply

That Banana Plant murdered his village.

tomroadrunner - January 24, 2012 reply

I think what we can all take from this is that

Jamal Crawford reads StR.

PhutureKings - January 23, 2012 reply

Blazers Edge must embrace talent

Not run them outta town

TRADE TYREKE!!!!!

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

We need Oprah to get us some small forwards

Cincy Kings Fan - January 23, 2012 reply

Really tough situation

to start the season. So many road games this early in the season is tough on any team, especially a young one. This team really hasn’t had a chance to put any consistency together because they haven’t been at home very much at all and won’t be for the next couple of weeks. You play the schedule you have, but it certainly isn’t doing the Kings any favors at the moment. They do have 4-3 record at home but you can’t go 2-8 on the road and expect to be a playoff team. Right now I’m looking for consistency and effort from this team. Winning is a process, and winning on the road is no small task. Either you have to dominate at home and be average on the road or you have to be above average at home and slightly below average on the road. Right now the Kings are average at home and well below average on the road. DeMarcus Cousins’ play is encouraging however. I think Tyreke will turn it around eventually as will Marcus. Unfortunately this season will probably be lost before the Kings start to win some games consistently. That’s just the nature of it. I’d say we’ll pick somewhere in the 6, 7, 8 range come June. :(

I don't see Thorton turning it around.

He is a chucker with the worst kind of tunnel vision. If Smart continues to allow him to play like he has been playing then we are choosing to live and die depending on if he is hot or not. Not a good plan in my opinion.

Blowout yes

But not as bad as the blowouts 2-3 weeks ago.

bignerd - January 23, 2012 reply

it pretty much was

this one wasn’t as close as the final score.

they didn’t go down 30, only around 20 this team

bignerd - January 23, 2012 reply

Nah, I think if you've watched all the games, this one was frustrating in a very different way.

This was “hopeful frustration” instead of “hopeless frustration”.

well said

Mechanical Shift - January 23, 2012 reply

This is one of the worst teams I've ever seen

I’ve never seen such a collectively low basketball IQ. I’m a diehard Kings fan, watch every single game, and I find myself wanting to turn off this garbage I’m watching. There is absolutely no “team” feel here. It looks like a bunch of guys playing a pickup game against guys who know how to play basketball.

IT22 is pretty much the only guy who looks like he has a natural ability to pass. John Salmons is the worst SF in the league by far. He’s so bad I can’t imagine him getting another job after we amnesty him. Tyreke is either the best player on the team one night or completely non-existant.

This entire team, minus Cousins, needs to be blown up and rebuilt. This will never happen under the broke ass Maloofs though. Incredibly frustrating.

I wish I could argue that point

But I can’t. It’s starting to really seem like excepting this team to gel is like expecting square pegs to fit into round holes. At this point I’m almost ready to say trade Tyreke and whatever it takes to get Rondo

Tyreke, Hayes, Thornton, Salmons, and a pick

for Pierce and Rondo

Rondo ain't saving this team, especially with the remnants you'd have after that move.

and adding one other poudy guy to replace your current poudy guy might not be the greatest

Poudy? You mean pouty? Who?

DMC and Reke

and Rondo

Tyreke isn't really pouty

he’s just really low key

Well he's getting that way right before our eyes

When his game ain’t goin and guys aren’t hitting their shots, he sure starts to dog it.

Reke's passing pretty good right now

but just sayin when players aren’t hitting it and he ain’t getting his, he straight up starts sulking and doesn not get back in transition and starts mailing it in.

on the Cs I mean

rondo?

Have you been watching Cousins?

How do you get pouty? And I don’t think I’ve ever seen Tyreke show that much emotion.

Except for the Chicago comeback his rookie year.

Seen both of them

And Reke dogs it sometimes when his shot ain’t goin in. He doesn’t exactly hustle back up the court. He’s just a quite wet sack of potatoes at times when it would be nice to see him act as a leader.

Yes I know it’s a higher standard but if he wants to be the guy he needs to act like the guy.

and it ain't about court vision or anything like that, just attitude

Agree that Reke sometimes doesn't hustle

I just don’t see pouty.

I’ve had teenagers. I know pouty.

lol

okay, maybe not the best word (at least you’d think I’d spell it right)

sorry last night I was just frustrated with the lack of adults playing

of course I end up acting like a child in the process but it is what it is

then again asking a lot from two really young guys

Mechanical Shift - January 23, 2012 reply

DMC used to get pouty, but I am not seeing that so much from him;

to me Reke shows more indifference than anything when things aren’t going his way.

Slam_Dunk - January 24, 2012 reply

At this point

I don’t even KNOW what to do to save this team. Short of a Dwight Howard, there is no one player thats going to make them even competitive. Its just a sham of a team and its so frustrating.

Cousins oozes potential. I honestly think Tyreke isn’t going to do much more climbing in his career. Jimmer, unless he can up his game to “terrible” on defense, is never going to be an asset on the floor unless the other 4 guys are defensive players of the year. Our 3 spot is so bad that we literally could start Orunj Cohen and be a better team…. and thats not sarcasm.

I have so much frustration aimed at the Maloofs because we COULD have a good team, but its like shopping at the god damn dollar store for a diamond ring with those morons.

Ughhhhh

I have full confidence that we could suck

even with Dwight Howard.

No one is going to SAVE this team overnight

But having Rondo and DMC to build around for the future is a damn good start.

Mechanical Shift - January 23, 2012 reply

Having someone who knows how to pass

would be a great jumpstart. Right now, this is the mentality of the current players

Dribble in to traffic choose one of the following
1. Jack up a one footed fade away with three guys in your face
2. See a wide open Donte at the three point line who can’t hit water falling out of a boat
3 See a wide open Jimmer who is 5 of 7 and our best three point shooter

They ALWAYS go for 1 or 2.

Its

Do you really think Rondo would pass as much if he was on this team?

Rondo is a star. One of the best PGs in the league but to me he is more Russell Westbrook than CP3 or Nash. If you put him on this team, with no HOFs to defer to, he probably goes for 25pts & 4-5ast a game.

Rondo as of now is a far better passer than Reke, but I’m not so quick to anoint him the savior of this offense. This team needs better players to pass the ball to, period. Without that Rondo is going to score a lot of points on this very bad team but probably won’t make everyone else any better. He’s a great PG not a miracle worker.

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Probably true

but they’d still be a better team with Rondo than Tyreke because Rondo is simply a better player. Tyreke MAY be better someday, but that’s a big maybe.

Rondo was put in the best situation he could have ever been put in

He’s a great player but he’s been groomed. Very unlike Tyreke.

Allbenji - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

Personally I think

Cousins
Thompson
Pierce
Jimmer
Rondo

would be a great improvement over what we have now.

Plus, the SMF Curse would strike Rajon Rondo

My SMF Curse is that whenever any new player comes to the Kings and they step off the plane at SMF, any semblance of basketball fundamentals leave their mind.

gregory l - January 24, 2012 reply

Thorton and Salmons for

enter the name of any two starters on any team not from Cleveland or Washington.

How much more "blown up" do you want it?

This team is pretty damn depleted.

Allbenji - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

You must have missed our 17 win season a few seasons ago

GOOD TIMES!

It seems like this team has no pride or heart

Normally when a team gets blown out by a another team, they come back looking for revenge the next time they play. I didn’t see that in the Grizzlies or Portland game, though. They pretty much rolled over and got blown out AGAIN. I’m really getting disgusted with this team.

This.

Cousins and Reke kind of pissing me off a little to be honest.

although yes, a few others and their shooting is beyond painful

What more can you ask of Cousins?

He was, what, 18 & 13 last night? Against LMA? He has been the best player on the team for the past three weeks. Bar none. No contest. Give the bashing a rest already.

Honestly, I saw a lot of class and maturity towards DMC after that game.

He got physically abused by the Portland bigs last night, and he didn’t argue once about it, or let his temper get to him. Even when Jim Gray tried to get DMC to act up in the halftime interview, he answered with class.

LMA and Camby were constantly committing over the back fouls against Cousins and Thompson. Craig Smith and Kurt Thomas were pushing him and hip-checking him all night.

That was the worst refereed game I've seen this year.

They were calling ticky-tack fouls and letting mauling go uncalled. Your right, Camby went right over Cuz’s back for a rebound and came down on his shoulders and they let it go. Donte had position for a rebound on the weak side and Smith pushed him completely out of bounds and no call.

Agreed. I wanted to scream through the TV when they called the and-1 on that one LMA putback

when Cousins was just standing there. Maybe the refs called the foul as punishment for not boxing out? Thats my best guess.

Not to say there was only bad officiating against the Kings, it was pretty terrible all around.

Cousins and Reke kind of pissing me off a little to be honest.

Holy shit that’s some awful stuff right there. OH NOOOZZZZZ!!!

while at it

clearly they are the two best players on the team

I disagree.

I thought the team was fighting hard most of the night, and getting just as frustrated by their inability to win this game as we were watching it. I think Portland is a damn tough team to beat at home, and they have a few guys, led by Wallace, who make it really tough to get a good flow going. For a young team to try to overcome that is not an easy task. The only way the Kings come into Portland and win is if the Blazers have a bad game. They did have a pretty bad 1st quarter, and the game was very competitive. They started doing their thing in the 2nd quarter, and the game was no longer competitive. I didn’t see the Kings rolling over.

There were points thought where certain players did half ass it while they were getting routed though

I think one of the problems is

Save for Reke, DMC, Thornton (Maybe), we don’t have anyone that would get legitimate playing time anywhere else on a good team in the NBA. Not that I use it as a rule, or that I always use this as some sort of measuring stick, but save for our two up and comers, we don’t have any house hold names in the NBA. It’s like Donte? Salmons? Hickson? Who would they start for on a current NBA playoff team?

Also, K-Mart had 31 Points tonight. Huzzah. Glad we got rid of him, we obviously have better players now.

/snark.

Oh no Kevin Martin sucked

he was soft. Not a winner. We’re so much better without him…

According to that screwball Peaches

He was so soft, and weak, and all that….

So if he’s so bad, maybe that big buffoon should come out firing on all cylinders at this current team, yeah?

And by buffoon I meant

Peaches.

Just can't get it together

betweentheeyes - January 23, 2012 reply

Love this

lead_pipe - January 23, 2012 reply

This kid is drunk

Probably watched one too many Kings games

Must. Pass. Ball.

It starts here and mostly ends here. No flow, no rhythm, no way to build consistency until players move the ball and themselves and stop being so damn selfish.

nikolokolus - January 23, 2012 reply

Reke

Sac should really consider trading evans if a good deal comes, while he still has some value left…

pakyubai - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Not going to matter

It’s one piece of the puzzle. Everyone else still sucks save for DMC.

Experience

It’s easy to hate on the performances of our young corner stones, with no consistant outside help thus far mind you, and say they are terrible and should be shipped off.

But atleast we have a team reguardless of the maloofs not putting the right vet experience in place.

And the fact that we got blown out by a team that more than likely will make the western conference finals this year barring serious injuries, is not important. Be patient we need time to develop a real confidence and automatic way of thinking. They are trying their best out there to improv a system that for most teams has been in place for 5+ years.

They will get better and they are no worse than the lame ass knicks. Compare records and hearts not point totals.

corpse916 - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

Naivete. I love it.

Seriously, I never riff on posts, but I’m going to for once.

Seriously? Are you kidding me? This is exactly the sort of losing attitude that doesn’t get us anywhere. “At least we have a team”.

Well yeah, that’s great. What’s the point if the Magoofs don’t do any damn thing to make them at least playoff contenders?

And how do you ever figure that the Trailblazers will make the Western Conference Finals this year?I would put the Clippers, OKC, the [Redacted], the Rockets, Dallas, and maybe even SA ahead of the Trailblazers.

You ask for patience. Even Peaches is fed up. We’ve had freaking patience for them to start doing things to put a championship team in place for the last 6-7 years. Instead we’ve watched this team fall by the wayside.

“They are trying their best out there to improv[sic] a system that for most teams has been in place for 5+years”.

OKC would like to have a word with you. So would the Clippers. So you can compare records and hearts all you want (Though I don’t see how that makes sense, records are what we’re looking at), and I love the Kings dearly, but at some point it stops being about caring, and becomes about winning. The Kings need to find a way to WIN. End of story.

And let’s be honest. There is Reke and DMC. Neither of which are really proving to be true cornerstones of a franchise the way Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kobe, or Jordan are/were. And one of the reasons we don’t have that Vet leadership is because the Magoofs weren’t willing to shell out for it. We’ve traded off our best for cap space and lesser players. And now we have nothing.

HarveySpecter - January 24, 2012 reply

Though I will correct myself and say that DMC could be, potentially.

HarveySpecter - January 24, 2012 reply

Dwight, Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, & Durant are extremely rare players first off

They also had great teams built around them. Their teams spent way way over the luxury tax to support them with good players. This is not the case with Reke/DMC. Not even close. We can’t even get over the minimum salary!

Say what you want about Sammy D but he is a legit NBA starting big man. We let him go to sign a guy who would be a 3rd/4th big on most teams in the NBA. It’s not like we let him go for Chandler or Nene. I like Chuck but this is the type of mentality in this organization we’ve had to deal with since Webber went down.

Dalembert was a big risk but this is an organization that takes no risks & I’m sick of it.

Allbenji - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

"Dwight, Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, & Durant are extremely rare players first off"

Yet only 2 of those 5 players accomplished what Tyreke did his Rookie year.

All I am saying is, the expectation of greatness was set after that first year so its ridiculous to witness what he have had to from Reke the past couple years.

Very frustrating.

Even more ridiculous

Is having to hear everyone STILL talk about how great he is and how we need to have patience.

My relationship with the Kings dates back a long time. Jr. High, High school, College, most of my career. It predates the relationship I have with my Wife and Kids, and I am really pissed off to see it becoming what it is, and even more pissed off when people keep telling me to have patience. This team may be leaving next year, and the way they are playing, nobody but die hard fans are gonna care.

I hate the Malindas and what they have done to this team.

Dirk

If you’ve been around this long, you know that the Kings have been much worse in the past and much better. It is a process. Much as I hate the Maloofs, I at least recognize that they gave us the glory years. Because this team sucked much worse than it does now before they came along.

I hear ya Beastie

and I appreciate you trying to talk me down from the ledge. I just think that they can no longer afford to own this team, and are too stubborn to sell. The product on the floor the past several years has been atrocious.
I don’t like watching the team disintegrate the way it has. I mean we are constantly concerned with the salary floor. FLOOR!
Ugh.

BurningFeathers - January 24, 2012 reply

They may have brought us the glory years

But they are responsible for this too. I’m sure Cuban has a poster of them on his toilet seat to catch the spray and remind him to keep spending money on the Mavs.

HarveySpecter - January 24, 2012 via Android app reply

I am not comparing the Kings to the rest of the league any more.

I am comparing them to their past selves.

Cousins, IT, Jimmer and Thompson are trending upward.
Tyreke is brilliant one moment and then lackadaisical the next.
Donte, Cisco look to be moving from deep bench players to starters/role players.
Hickson continues to be meh.
Outlaw and Salmons should not be getting playing time.

Here's the problem

Donte, Cisco look to be moving from deep bench players to starters/role players.

That’s how bad this team is!
Do you honestly think these cats would get any burn on another team!?

I've said it for two weeks

This team doesn’t have the raw talent to score 90 points most nights. Certainly they don’t have the right pieces to play defense. It is going to be a bad season. Sit back, enjoy every win, expect a blowout any game it looks like an opponent is going to reach 100 points, look for player development from Reke, Cousins, Jimmer, IT and your pet favorite than hope for a good lottery ball. Its over, no shock here. Its not lack of effort, lack of BBIQ, etc, it’s playing 3 against 5 every single game which gets this team blown out.

bignerd - January 24, 2012 reply

Agreed.

For me, two biggest missing pieces are a true scoring SF and a commanding, experienced PG. Those two ingredients would make the entire roster look different, in my opinion. The thing is, getting decent return for either or both of those spots could mean dealing a key piece, like Evans. That said, if it brought someone like Pierce and a Sessions on board, could be worth it. Of course, I think Evans would fit at SG best, but if the best thing out there is a deal, we should consider it. You have to trade something to get something, after all.

KevinSalvadori - January 24, 2012 reply

I don´t even mind the losses anymore.

I guess I sound like a Maloof employee when I say this season is about improvement now more than wins because the season is pretty much lost already (after less than 1/3 of the games!), might aswell get a decent draft pick out of it.

What drives me crazy is that several guys keep throwing up the worst possible shot over and over again. If Outlaw backs down a defender and goes for a turnaround fade-away 12-footer off one leg I want to explode. Anybody who´s name isn´t Dirk shouldn´t be allowed to do that, especially since it hasn´t worked a single time. Almost as bad are Evans jump shots just inside the 3 early in the shotclock, literally the worst shot there is but it happens way too often.

Other than that and the obligatory 2nd or 3rd quarter nap I like where the Kings are going.

rubenho - January 24, 2012 reply

When it got to 10 1/2 way thru 2nd qtr and you could feel their momentum...

THAT"S when your go to guy need to step up and score, drive and assist or dig in defensively. I sat watching in disbelief as Reke simply disappeared. I have doubts that he can be that all-star, cornerstone guy. He is so tough in the open court with a head of steam…but in the half court game he is limited when the shit hits the fan. I actually think his best option for improvement right now is to dedicate himself to be a defensive stopper (he could be a beast on defense if he dedicated to it) and that would not take away from him ability to drive the ball to the hoop. It wouldn’t hurt his 3-pt shooting because he can’t do that anyways. He could still average 15 points on way better % to go along with more boards and assists and give this team some defensive fire.

Pdidd - January 24, 2012 reply

Yep.

I think I know what Mike Ditka would say about Reke’s 3’s and long 2’s: “Just stop it.”

blknblu - January 24, 2012 reply

Watched the Blazers feed on NBA League Pass.

Man, Mike Rice (provides color commentary for the Blazers) would not let up on bagging on the Kings (not that it wasnt somewhat deserved). Just 2.5 hours of giving out about the poor shot selection, lack of team play, etc. Sir. Please stop beating that horse. It’s dead already.

defender96 - January 24, 2012 reply

I couldn't believe how bad it was

For the first 45 minutes I was angry then it became almost comical like a SNL skit

Pdidd - January 24, 2012 reply

I watched the Blazers feed too.

They were depressingly accurate.

polotown - January 24, 2012 reply

I thought they were pretty funny.

At the start of the second half when the Kings passed the ball around the horn and Donte airballed a three, the announcer said “Well you won’t see that play again.”

And an interesting sidenote they said Outlaw had struggled in New Jersey and Sacramento because he wasn’t being used properly. “He’s a backup power forward, that’s what he is. A stretch four.”

blknblu - January 24, 2012 reply

isn't that how the Kings often used Outlaw?

Yeah, that guy is a punk ass bully.

Just not sure why he felt the need to bring so much negativity to the telecast. I can’t imagine most of the Blazers fans enjoying it. I don’t ever recall hearing an announcer focus on the opposing team so much throughout the game (particularly through the entire first quarter), and I have to wonder where that kind of attitude is coming from (definitely felt like insecure compensating for something).

Are the Kings playing bad basketball and having a hard time getting easy shots? Yes, and it’s no secret. But do you need to jeer them every damn time they have the ball regardless of what they end up doing with it? Bringing the ball up the court, it was like “Alright, expect another bad quick shot here” and if they actually did move the ball and get a good shot it was “Well, somehow they managed to get a good shot there despite how dumb and terrible they are” and if they didn’t get a good shot it was “There you go, they’re a terrible team that takes bad shots”.

He particularly had it out for Cousins. Every time he touched the ball (which is a lot, because he’s one of our only good players), it was “Here he goes trying to get his” or “Don’t expect to get the ball back from him”, and when he did actually pass it, “Wow, I can’t believe he gave up the ball, hahaha sneersneersneer”. He finally, grudgingly, admitted that Cuz has a special talent for rebounding, which is hard to ignore no matter how much of a condescending prick you are. But he brought up the Westphal crap multiple times, basically saying that Westphal got fired because he tried to get DeMarcus to be a team player and that Coach Smart better not try to get in Cuz’s way or he’ll be next.

You’ve got a decent team up there, dude. No need for the insecure aggressive bullshit. Comment on the game in front of you, use your knowledge of your team and the game to help the fans understand what they’re seeing, and leave the personal agendas and bullying out of it.

Agree completely

They had a few funny lines. But most of it was just straight trash talking. You don’t hear that from good announcers. Crap like, Look at Cousins taking those outside shots. That’s what the old coach complained about. Maybe the new coach learned something. He won’t complain if he wants to stay around. Just lame.

Radio guys were bad too

I was listening to the Audio League Pass feed from Sac, but it died at the beginning of the 3rd so I had to listen to the Blazers feed. It would’ve been difficult to listen to if I were a Blazers fan. Snide comments when the Kings missed a shot or turned the ball over, and backhanded compliments when they scored. The only thing that could’ve made it worse was if I were listening to it in the dentist’s chair. Even then, the radio call would’ve been worse.

rpmonkey - January 24, 2012 reply

Rec'd

I was FUMING at the exact same things. Such a douche.

Officially my least favorite announcers now.

Excellent recap, Aykis.

It was that 19-2 run by the Blazers in that 6 minute stretch, which told the tale. As a fan watching the game and posting on the game thread, it felt as though we were run over by a Mack truck. I can only image what it must have felt like for the players. It appeared to be pure chaos by the Kings in that stretch, as through they were ambushed and didn’t know how to regroup. Smart mentioned that the game got away from them in the second quarter, so I would imagine their post-game autopsy will focus on that portion of the game.

Despite the glaring hole they dug for themselves, I have to give the team some props for their composure under the circumstances. Course, they have been in this predicament before, so this was not new territory for them. Kudos to Cousins who played after turning his ankle and continued to contribute. Kudos to Jimmer for making some shots

I turned the game off near the end of the 4th quarter, when it appeared with almost certainty that it would be another blowout loss. I continued to monitor the game thread and was surprised the Kings went on a little run of their own, putting a little band aid on their wound.

Silver lining: The final score could have been much worse.

Slam_Dunk - January 24, 2012 reply

Curious if anyone knows

What Tyreke’s 1/2 court shot shooting percentage is?

I think it’s gotta be better than his regular 3 point shooting percentage, and that’s not a good thing.

Ha, good point.

There’s “Jimmer Range”, and there’s “’Reke Range”.

As tough as this is to watch

It should not be completely unexpected. We are the toughest part of our schedule, we have two starters out, we changed coaches in midstream, we have several new players and very little practice time, and we still have a better record this year than last year

I so badly want to believe you and yell in agreement.

But man, it’s painful to watch this squad.

As tough as it's been to watch at times...

5 games back(in the loss column), going through the toughest part of our schedule. The kings still have PLENTY of time to turn this thing around and make the end of the season interesting, especially with a majority of the games in the back half of the season being at home.

I’d like the turning point to come sooner rather than later though.

The best things about the losses...

All the goofy GIFs that follow :)

kromeace - January 24, 2012 reply

Crawford just terrible, a "bad fit"

It’s pretty obvious we didn’t need Jamal Crawford and he wouldn’t have made us a better club. After all, all he would have done is stunt the growth of Jimmer.

We aren’t going anywhere until we drop the mindset of being a player development league and gifting rookies minutes before they’ve earned them.

That said, a few more Isaiah Thomas makes last night would have made this an interesting game.

NewEraKings - January 24, 2012 reply

Um

Last I saw we offered Crawford more money than Portland did. Were we supposed to kidnap him?

I'm not talking about the team's response

I am talking about some of the fans here.

NewEraKings - January 24, 2012 reply

Just in case

you need a refresher, Ziller questioned the Kings chase for Crawford in this article, which was followed by 530 comments, many doing the same.

Bad “fit” seemed to be the theme because our guard rotation was “set.” Right.

NewEraKings - January 24, 2012 reply

So the Kings failure to succeed

is due to fans opinions? Or are you saying Crawford chose Portland because of Ziller’s article?

Well, I was part of that contingent that said Crawford was a bad pick for this team...

…and my argument was that we did not need another shoot first, shoot second, think about passing but still shoot third, pass fourth guard on our team. And I still think I am right. The fact that he is better than Jimmer is irrelevant to that argument.

Nobody foresaw the fact that every shooter on our team would slump at the same time to begin of the season.

Though I'm starting to think we should have foreseen it, based on previous seasons

I was also in the “Crawford isn’t what we need” camp…I think I still am, despite his blowing us up last night.

lead_pipe - January 24, 2012 reply

The Kings failure is due to the fact

that we aren’t going anywhere until we drop the mindset of being a player development league and gifting rookies minutes before they’ve earned them.

NewEraKings - January 27, 2012 reply

I just love

How you only show up to say “Look at me, I was right! I was right! I deserve respect!”

Same as it ever was LPA

Crawford had a nice game, I guess that’s all that matters (not the fact that his numbers are awful for Portland overall this season).

Just a reality check NEK – Crawford’s shooting % would place him 10th on the Kings roster this season – his 3 point % would place him 3rd, but almost identical to Francisco’s (.292 to .289). His rebounding % would be 13th, and he would have the highest usage rate – well in front of DeMarcus Cousins.

His assist % would be third, which sounds great, but it’s right behind Isaiah Thomas.

And that’s taking into consideration he’s playing for a pretty damn good team. You think his stats would be better in Sacramento? He’d be our Travis Outlaw.

Yeah, just what this team needed – another no-conscience chucker who can’t actually make shots.

Rec'd for reality

Not surprisingly

You’re wrong. Feel free to read my timeline.

I think you all missed the main point I was trying to make:

We aren’t going anywhere until we drop the mindset of being a player development league and gifting rookies minutes before they’ve earned them.

Crawford would have improved the team. But we’d rather forcefeed minutes to rookies, and then we wonder why we suck.

NewEraKings - January 27, 2012 reply

Not for nothing,

but Crawford has sucked to the high heavens this year, except for when he plays the Kings. So I suppose his signing would have helped us last night, as he would have sucked for us instead of excelling against us.

Crawford’s performance last night vaulted him to into mediocre range for the year – at this point he is having a season similar O.J. Mayo, and that’s while playing for a team far superior to the Kings. I’m betting he would be another “Petrie mistake” had we wound up signing him

section214 - January 24, 2012 reply

SHINY OBJECT

Watched quarters 1-3

I think things have improved under coach Smart, but I saw a lot of our old offense out there- guys standing around not moving and a lot of our possessions following the same m.o.- 5-8 seconds on the shot clock elapse before the offense is even initiated followed by one or more of the following: dribbling, half-hearted screen/roll, or lateral passes around the 3 point line. possession ends with iso-ish long 2 or 3 jacked up as shot clock ready to expire.

Not always the case, but we seem to frequently regress to this type of offense, which hurts because nobody is hitting anything from the perimeter!

Note to coach Smart. Instead of putting Outlaw in (or almost any of our 3s at this point), please do one of the following: pull any fan (whether they’re a Kings fan or not doesn’t matter) from the stands, give them Outlaw’s jersey and send them in OR play 4 on 5.

outrider - January 24, 2012 reply

After reading all these depressing comments above, I would like to point out that it takes a long time and a lot of effort to fix bad habits.

And the Kings have a lot of them. I see flashes of good play out there, just not enough of it to warrant wins at this point. I think Tyreke gets discouraged because he makes great passes to players in good positions that continue to miss shots. I didnt know I would see a player with worse hands than JT, but the Kings found one, and traded for him (Hickson). Kings do not use the whole court effectively on offense as spacing looked terrible last night.

As for the state of the NBA, it does not help our cause that the Western Conference is 12 teams deep, and the East is 6 (maybe). There are going to be many more tough games in our schedule, especially since the shortened season took away a good portion of the inter-conference games.

The team needs time to gel together. These next few weeks are going to be crucial to this team’s development. Still a lot of road games in February, but only one back-to-back. This is also the first week we have less than 4 games on the schedule, and have had more than one day between games only once thus far. That is about the worst recipe for team development. Sprinkle in a coaching change in there, too.

LMAO at the replay of Camby's reaction after blocking Thomas

you could see him trying not to laugh cuz he had basically just took the ball out of the air from Thomas like he was a 12 year old. Seems like Thomas goes in the paint and gets emphatically stuffed about three times a game. He’d be a lot more efficient if he stopped forcing that kind of stuff up.

dethtruk - January 24, 2012 reply

IT was stumbling to the ground on that play and had nothing else to do but toss it up.

Not saying it wasn’t still a bad play that he tried to do something and tripped, but I’m not sure if he would have been looking to pass or take a more controlled shot had he kept his footing.

That's an adjustment thing IMO

I bet we’ll see far less of that 3 months into the season. He’ll then learn the art of the floater and hesitation moves.

Like the switch to Smart but some playing time has me scratching my head...

IT plays great a while back and doesn’t see the floor in the next game….now he is shooting like the 60th pick. Jimmer catches fire vs Memphis and seems to have it going again last night and doesn’t go in till late in 3rd when it’s over. Does he just want to keep players on their toes or is it all about match-ups? Or is it a matter of them being rookies and they just take what they get?

Pdidd - January 24, 2012 reply

Jimmer didnt get more minutes because he was getting abused by both Felton and Crawford on D

and because our bigs are horrible on help defense, it leaves Jimmer to look helpless out there.

Silver linings

Tyreke on his bad nights is still looking to contribute. Last night I saw him getting to the rim, but he wasn’t getting any whistles and his shot wasn’t dropping (at least not from less than 40 feet). When he’s not scoring, he’s not killing the team’s chances by forcing it all night, he’s looking to draw attention and get the ball to his teammates (who also aren’t scoring, but at least he’s trying to get things going), and also grabbing some boards. He’s not piling on a ton of shots or turning the ball over a bunch.

Cousins on his mediocre nights is still contributing a lot. If he’s not getting good looks, he’s not forcing things for himself and piling on the missed shots and turnovers. He’s working hard on defense and rebounding the hell out of the ball. Think about how far his “baseline” production has jumped from last year. I’m not giving you any advanced stats or anything, but I sure remember quite a few “total disaster” games from DeMarcus last year, where he didn’t have it going good but he was still forcing things, pouting, fouling, and losing the game for us. Have there been any of those games this year? I can’t think of any. He’s a second-year player, 21 years old. Knowing that he’s not going to lose the game for us even if he’s not winning it for us is huge.

Hayes is coming back. Despite his shortcomings (pun intended), he’s probably our 4th most talented player overall, and our most veteran. Does he solve all of this team’s problems? Not even close, but this team will be better with him on the court, with less time for some of the guys that are contributing little or nothing.

Jimmer has looked a thousand times more comfortable out there the past couple of games. Don’t expect 20 points per game any time soon, but if we can start to count on him to make most of his open shots and limit his turnovers, this team will start to be much more competitive.

funny how guys want to trade Reke

after a game in which a former King, Gerald Wallace, completely dominated us at the 3 spot. The problem is where playing team basketball with a roster that has 3 players that would get minutes on other NBA teams. Right now we’ve got Reke, Thornton, and DMC. Thats it. Everyone else would be hardpressed to earn an NBA paycheck. Our starting PG last year was Beno, who’s a bench player for an eastern conference lottery team right now! Do you get the trend here? We dont have good players. Therefore, team basketball cant work with this team because their not starting caliber players in the NBA.
Another thing about Reke is, he was picked at the #4 spot in the draft, and if u’d rather have Curry/Rubio I think our delusional. Even Golden State went out and got (overpaid for) David Lee. Would Curry or Rubio add wins to this current roster? NO! because the surrounding players still suck! Bottom line. Seriously imagine any of those players on this roster. We would still be bottom feeders of the West. You have to go out and overpay for veteran talent, something that the maloofs dont do.

Get your point

But I’m guessing if most GMs could have Curry, Rubio, or Evans, at least half would choose Curry or Rubio over Evans. So delusional might be a bit too strong of a word there.

Agreed delusional is a strong word

I would still take ‘Reke over the others as Rubio hasn’t shown me enough more than passing skills (yet) and Curry lacks the defense in my opinion and healthwise seems to be weaker than Tyreke is now (although both are scary int hat department.) But I could understand GM’s taking Rubio if they like that passing PG or Curry if they want the shooting PG.

Rubio's pretty good on defense as well

And he’s surprisingly good shooting the three (although he’s as bad as advertised everywhere else).

Agreed his Defense isnt as bad as we were told

BUT I still didn’t think much of it in the 4 games i saw. They seemed to try to get him on the lesser man yet he still seemed average at best in my opinion even matched against lesser skilled offensive guards. I like how he rebounds reasonably for a guard though and as you said his 3ptr has been falling but he has not shot well overall.

still disagree.

i think gms go 60 percent evans over curry because hes injury prone, and doubt anyone would take rubio over evans im sorry. rubio is a good player, but its not like he’s made the timberwolves a contender or nothing.

He hasn't made them a contender in the 17 games he's played?

What a schlub.

Oh, Minnesota is 7-10 this season. After 17 games last season, they were 4-13.

kevin love becoming a better player

and Wolves getting the number 2 pick in the draft can improve your team too. Also adding aldeman as the hc. Not taking anything from Rubio, hes a good player. But over tyreke, no way.

I wouldn't take him over Reke right now either

Just thought your argument that he hasn’t made them a contender yet is funny. Especially if you use the same criteria to evaluate Tyreke.

They've added talent

though they still don’t have a SG or a legit Center. They’ve had some nice road wins this season – which is always tough.

And this year's compacted schedule is tougher.

I probably wouldn't take Rubio either

But mostly because I think Evans will make a very good 2 or 3. If what I needed was a floor general to run my otherwise good team, I would take Rubio over Evans in a heartbeat.

I'm starting to think having both of them in the same backcourt would be ridiculous defensively

I'd still take Lawson over Rubio or Curry.

And I’m holding onto the Evans upside. Dude can improve in SO MUCH with his physical tools already present.

I hope all of you are right about Evans

However I have my reservations. I just don’t see him becoming anything more than he is. I just don’t feel he has the mental capacity to play to the level you are expecting him to reach.

Most intelligent basketball players don’t take shots at the rim when their back is facing it. I can think of 2 or 3 times that Reke has actually taken a shot while not even facing the hoop, and hasn’t made, (or even come close),a single one.

Warriors also are in a big market, with new owners willing to spend.

Case closed.

Petrie needs to go. Complete disaster of a roster trying to stockpile young talent

just doesnt work

Question

You have to go out and overpay for veteran talent, something that the maloofs dont do.

Followed by:

Petrie needs to go. Complete disaster of a roster trying to stockpile young talent

If the first comment is true, then does it matter who your GM is?

section214 - January 24, 2012 reply

good point

but i dont think you can put this all on the maloofs. were barely at the cap minimum. theres been chances to get affordable veterans that can contribute either thru free agency or trade that Petrie hasnt pulled the trigger on.
a good example could be the memphis grizzles. Good young talent, then you go out and add vets like Z bo, shane battier (left for the heat), tony allen. Guys who are afforable and fill roles. You re-sign young talent and boom playoff team. Even though you’re overpaying guys i think the maloofs would be willing to pay if it meant the Kings being a good team again.
IDK if the Maloofs are really that cheap or they dont think overpaying for a guy like jamal crawford is really the answer and thus are hesistant to dish out checks. IDK if Petrie goes to the Maloofs begging like “we need to overpay guys now, pull the trigger” either. its a bad situation all the way around.

Memphis took huge gambles on Z-Bo and Tony Allen...

Z-Bo was a huge head case for every other team he played for and Tony Allen had a pretty bad injury history with Boston. I am glad it worked out for them, just sayin. Also, their best moves were developing and resigning their own talent (Rudy Gay, Conley, Gasol).

Z-Bo suddenly grew up

I sure didn’t see it coming.

same

but love what’s he’s become

just hope he can come back with enough explosiveness

Flip Saunders fired in DC.

Ichiban - January 24, 2012 reply

You don't say...

Playing time decision isn't as easy as it looks though in my opinon

You look at IT. He changes the pace and starts dishing the ball out last night, but at the same time is jacking up shots and missing them. So do you take the positives in that he changed the pace, lit a small fire, and accept the negatives that he is shooting worse than just about anyone and still taking the most shots?

You look at Jimmer and you say ok he has confidence his shot is falling, but then on the other hand its maddening to watch him on defense and you are getting beaten badly when he is on the floor. Do you keep him out and rely on his hot hand at the ris of continuing to get lit up on the other end?

To be honest I was most frustrated last night by the complete inability to make stops. They actually didn’t play horribly as if you remove one stretch of the game they actually played with Portland. It was just frustrating to watch throughout the second half that they make a few buckets to get it down to 15 and then give up 2 or 3 easy baskets to go back down 20 or so.

I think that playing time is a difficult one as so many of these guys are inconsistent or one dimensional. Guys like Jimmer and Thornton you know have offensive game but if the shot isnt on you cannot overcome their defensive deficiencies, and guys like IT and Donte give you a ton of effort and change the feel of the game but if they are jacking up shots non-stop at 25%.

Smart is doing well in my opinion to get the most out of weak talent. Realistically you have two NBA starters, two solid sixth men (both injured right now) and a cast of bench players and prospects.

I've coached and have experienced things going badly

And looked down the bench to realize that there are no better choices.

Agree to a point

But one of the things you need to be aware of is that Jimmer was consistently trying to funnel his man into a big defender the way he was doing with Hayes early in the season. The problem is that either the big didn’t step up or that no one rotated to cover the man the big left. IT was facing his guy up. Sometimes that worked, many time it didn’t. But at least he wasn’t relying on the bigs which is what kept him on the floor. Getting Hayes back will help, but mostly we have just not had enough practice time to teach guys where they need to be on defense. Not saying that Jimmer is a stopper, just that he was trying to do what a PG is supposed to do in that situation. It just wasn’t working.

It doesn't help any that JJ is Jimmer's help defender...

…I constantly see him standing on the wrong side of a pick and roll. It’s getting irritating.

I saw this as well

Jimmer would do better defensively with better team defense, but then who would not. I have rarely seen the Kings play good team defense and rotate effectively.

I have been surprised to see that Jimmer really is quicker on defense than expected. I think he is getting lost a bit, but he has the quickness, size and strength to defend. He just needs to get more playing time and it will come.

Jimmer is finally looking comfortable and playing his game. A good thing and I expect to see his numbers go up dramatically.

CowbellKings - January 24, 2012 reply

To be fair to IT, he's been missing a lot of wide open shots.

I don’t see him dribbling down the court and picking a spot to get his shot off. He’s moving the ball and a lot of his shots are from hanging behind the three point line and letting it rip when he gets the pass with no one around him. I assume that Coach Smart is totally fine with him taking those shots when he’s open, instead of dribbling the ball in and looking to do something else with it. Actually, I’m sure Coach Smart is fine with Donté taking the wide open shots, as well, and doesn’t want to tell his guys not to shoot when they’re open, lest they start to doubt themselves completely and totally screw up their confidence on the floor. It’s the random contested shots that are frustrating about Donté, and I don’t recall seeing much of that from IT but maybe I’m missing it.

There have been some forced shots

but he’s certainly not alone in that. If some of the open ones were going in for any of them and we had a few more wins we would barely notice.
But he in particular is not out there to take shots.

?

Do we have 5 average defenders?
I say Reke Greene DMC Hayes and Salmons are our best 5. I don’t think all of them are average!

Good point.

I would say Reke (guards the best guard and does well typically) and DMC (despite nto being a shot blocker) are above average.

Salmons I think is consistent (you dont always notice him which at least defensively is a good thing sometimes) and a little above average.

Hayes and Greene depend on matchup and range from slightly above average to slightly below.

But like you said even your best lineup is likely average on most nights.

As much as I am a Cousins believer, and think he'll be an AllStar someday soon

He is not yet an above average defender. He’s average, which is pretty good for 15 games into his 2nd year.

I can respect that.

But I personally just think that he is creating turnovers with his blocks, steals, and charges in key times and he is rebounding reasonably well (still think he can get even more on the defensive end though I agree.) But I would take him over most centers without a doubt in my mind personally.

I worry that he's on his good behavior right now because of the Westphal thing

Will it last?

The glass is always half full for you, isn't it?

Depends on the player, actually

In my defense, I’ve been watching crappy basketball, crappy coaches and crappy basketball players for more than a few years now. ;)

I think he realizes the Westphal situation made him look like an ass in the public eye, warranted or not.

I hope it is a turning point in his career.

If Hayes stays healthy and develops good chemistry with DeMarcus, I could see that really helping him to keep things under control.

And/or, if the team continues to develop and play better and the wins start to come more regularly, I think DeMarcus will have an easier time staying focused. If the team doesn’t continue to develop and play better, and the blowouts keep coming, I could see DeMarcus’ frustrations coming out more often, sniping with the coaches and teammates, etc.

If our defense helped eachother out more, we would not look so bad.

Guards and wings are funneling players to bigs that do not rotate fast enough. Also could be better on the pick and roll.

That aside, we held Portland to 46.6% Take out Wallace’s 9-12 shooting, and that gives them 42.1%, and only gave up 9 fast break points.

I think Hayes coming back

Will make a big difference on our help defense. He’s really good at that, and he seems to be able to show other guys where to be on the floor.

Nobody has mentioned yet

That Isaiah Thomas has turned into a chucker. Eight assists, yes, but 1-5 from the three, and needed 12 shots to get 11 points. He needs to be told to stop jacking up 3PAs. He just doesn’t have the range.

Also got seriously abused on defense last night. He quit on a couple of plays, and has no clue how to drive his man baseline. He doesn’t run the offense. He’s quick, but I’m not seeing much reason for all calling for IT to start. He’s become almost as much of a black hole as Salmons.

Donté needs to be told not to shoot from three as well. For now, Garcia should start at the SF, then see how Honeycutt does, and then go to Greene or Salmons, or move Tyreke to the SF spot in smaller lineups.

Hayes can’t come back fast enough.

Jimmer and Garcia had good shooting nights. I hope that trend continues. And I hope that Smart starts running more plays to get them open, because everyone else last night, except DMC & JT, combined for a rather disgusting 12-48. Ugh.

Nice to see Jimmer getting hot for a few games in a row from three

What this kid needs is a big shot of confidence, and this is a start.

Agree

I don’t see anything in ITs college career to suggest he has ever been an effective shooter. Here is hoping that he either becomes one or stops shooting.

Have to remember

That for most of his college career, he was used as a scoring guard, rather than a distributor. So he’s making a positional adjustment, just as Jimmer and Tyreke are.

Sure

But you’d hope that the coach could help ease that transition. Maybe with a very supportive smack upside the head every time he shoots a 3.

He needs to penetrate and dish

or shoot the 10 footer, which he seems very good at.

The benefit of his speed

Is that he should be able to get that “stop and pop” jumper pretty frequently.

I've worried since the Knicks game (and many disagreed)

that he was shot hunting too much.
Now, one would hope it would be different if he ever came into a game where we have the lead – God forbid.

YES!!!

Im not a big fan of the short hook but I hope Smart starts giving these guys some tough love like he did with Curry at times. If you arent a shooter dont keep throwing it up Donte, JT, Hickson! Likewise if you aren’t going to cover anybody you wont see the floor Jimmer! BUT as we all know and have discussed when your options are limited you often times have to accept lesser of evils at times. Do you take Jimmer’s hot hand and bad D or Isaiah’s passing and horrible shots?

I too think Cisco should start for now

until someone else pulls thier head out of thier *ss and gets serious. No matter what, it seems to me that Cisco should be the first SF off the bench.

The lack of shot making by Salmons, Donte and others is frustrating, many of them are reasonably open looks off passes and none of those shots are missing by much.

I agree with this.

Hollinger pointed it out last night during the game as well, “someone explain to me why Greene got the starting nudge over Cisco again?”(something along those lines)

I know

I had high hopes for Smart’s “line-up changes” he talked about in one post-game. Only to see Salmons start again, followed by Greene, who is shooting nearly as badly.

Turnrd Into?

I see no difference … he was a chucker

bignerd - January 24, 2012 reply

I'm beginning to think the reason Isaiah gets open for so many of those corner threes

Is that opposing teams are simply letting him because he’s not consistent enough.

Aykis16 - January 24, 2012 reply

We should mention something positive

Cousins really is coming along. His growth curve looks very encouaging. Portland did a very good job keeping him occupied defensively with Camby, Smith and Thomas – who each tooks turns throwing a cheap shot or two.
Of course what happens next is that he’ll get frustrated by the lack of winning and try to make every shot himself.
Smart has to be on his guard about that.

Cousins is the real deal

He is just a beast on the boards and a complete handful for ANY defender. Even the elite Dwight Howard had a hard time with taking him straight up one on one. Earned a couple of quick fouls that way.

There may not be any Center in the league that play him one on one defensively. He is consistently getting doubled and tripled.

CowbellKings - January 24, 2012 reply

My theory is. Always that there should be 3 good outside shooters on the floor

With Reke and DMC as our core, that would mean that we need a 4 who can hit 3s and is a decent RBer (we can upgrade but in theory MT Jimmer and Cisco can fill the other 2 spots).
Anybody have a suggestion who fills those quails that we could get?

I'd settle for ANYONE

who can consistantly hit a wide open outside jumper

I would like to see two lights out shooters and a smart athletic big actually.

I only say this because having an extra big who the D has to respect would make things open up a bit more for DMC and also likely help on the defensive end from a shot blocking standpoint. Right now when paired with Hickson who stands outside and shoots 16’ jumpshots rather than use is athleticism, or say Hayes who lacks in the offensive area teams will be able to slack off onto Cousins more. If you had two wings already drawing the D out to respect the 3 and then an additional PF who draws attention DMC and ’Reke would be much more free to either beat a man one-on-one or have great options to kick too when the D commits the extra man.

A stretch 4 may work also but I think that becomes too much perimeter since Tyreke doesnt post his man up much. But I see what you mean by a rebounding big who can hit the three in the mold of a younger Troy Murphy.

I just think it would keep the floor spread ( like Orlando)

And make life easier for our 2 core players going forward.

One guy that comes to mind is Channing Frye.

He can both hit the 3 and rebound in bunches, though he doesn’t do either consistently. Ryan Anderson, of course, would be the prototype, or Murphy. Really, though, perimeter shooting paired with defense and rebounding is a tricky wishlist.

His contract is a little long

4yrs 32 million plus or minus
but yeh, he would work

section214 - January 24, 2012 reply

Nice Recap, Aykis

I would like to argue this one point;

the Kings trailed between 15-20 points for most of the game, thanks to a 19-2 run by Portland over a 6 minute stretch in the 2nd quarter. The Kings never recovered.

Yes, Portland went on a 20 to 7 run in the last 6:25 of the quarter, helped by some turnovers and poor shots on our part. But, what let them keep that lead was our poor interior defense and help defense the entire game.

Portland only shot 6% better than we did, so were they hitting their 3’s better or their mid to long range jumpers better. No, from 10 ft out to the 3pt line the Kings had the exact same number of made shots and shot attempts. They had one more basket at the 3-9ft range but we had eight more points at the FT line. So, away from the rim, the Kings led by 6 pts.

Unfortunately, Portland made 23 of 37 shots at the rim for 62.2% and the Kings were only 14 of 32 for 43.8%. So, yes, they did have a run, but what allowed that run to stand up and what keep us from getting back in the game was the fact that we gave up too many easy baskets in the paint the entire game.

Yes, our half court game isn’t very good and a little predictable, and we could have been just as good as Portland in transition had we finished the fast breaks better. But, what is really making it hard to be competitive game in and game out is the help defense around the rim.

That help D at the rim

I really thought Hickson would do well there. He gets turned around way too easily.

Ugh, Hickson is constantly out of position on D

Especially on the pick and roll. It is hard to watch.

Great point and one that is understated this year.

The lack of a shot blocking presence hurts inside. DMC does a great job of taking charges and altering shots on the drive but there is nobody who can defend once they are already inside as nobody blocks shots on this team. Someone like a BirdMan, Udoh, or an Asik off the bench even would greatly help that interior Defense I think.

?

Is there a stat that separates out At the rim for half court defense? If so, how do the Kings compare?

Not sure if this helps

For this season, the league average FG% given up at the rim is 62.9% the Kings are the highest at 70.7% and Minnesota is the median at 15th allowing 63.2%.

From 3-9 ft. the league average is 37.5% and the Kings are at 9th worst at 40.5% while the Spurs are 13th at 37.5%

From 10-15 ft the league average is 37.8% and the Kings are 5th worst at 41.3% while N.O. is 16th at 38.3%

From 16-23 the Kings are 19th just below the league average 37.6% at 37.4% while the Raptors are 17th at 37.8%

And, from 3pt range, the league adjusted average (eFG%) is 50.8% while the KIngs allow only 45.9% which ranks 5th best. Now there are two ways to look at this. Our opponent only take the league average for shots from 3pt range of about 18 per game. So, we could be doing a good job of defending the 3pt shot, or it could be that they just score too easily at the rim that they don’t need to take 3pt shots to outscore us.

Teams take the 3rd highest number of attempts at the rim where we give up the highest percentage. They take the 2 highest number of attempts in the 3-9 ft range where we give up the 9th highest number of attempts. In the mid range shots the take the 19th most shots, on long 2’s they take the 24th highest number of shots and from the arc they take the 12th highest number of shots.

So, it’s hard to say if they don’t shot as well away from the rim because of our defense, or it’s so easy to score in the paint that they don’t take enough shots outside to get a valid sample size.

Thanks

I will run the numbers around in my head for a while and try to pick. An explanation that bodes well for the King’s future. Thanks again.

It is true that we don't have good shot blockers down low.

Garcia is our 2nd best shot blocker at 0.5 per game behind Cuz at 1.5 per game. For his size JT is horrible ranking 8th on the Kings at 0.3, Hayes is 5th at 0.38, and JJ is tied with Tyreke for 3rd at 0.4. But we were just as bad last year with Dalembert, so one individual isn’t going to fix the problem.

These guys have to learn who to defend their goal as a team. And, it needs to start with defending the pick & roll, and continue into unselfishly moving over to cover the helpers man. We’re continually seeing 3,4 even 5 players defending the paint when Tyreke slashes. While the opposition guards waltz to the rim without even one hard foul all game.

Blocked shots isn't necessarily indicative of good defense

Has there ever been a "bad" defense...

…that’s lead the league in shot blocking? I ask out of curiosity. Any stat heads around here run an analysis of how the good shot blocking teams also rate in terms of total defensive efficiency (DRtg or whatever other appropriate measure could be used)? I’d be curious to know, but I’m too lazy to do the research myself…

outrider - January 24, 2012 reply

As soon as Tyreke starts driving

whever is in the paint should try to drag someone out. If they don’t follow it should leave someone(s) open for a short jumper.

But the best thing that could happen

is that Tyreke should consistantly pull up for the 10-12 footer.

He's the main culprit

But it seems like we have multiple guys that eschew the pull up to drive in to the teeth of the defense. Load up the Beno highlight reel and show ‘em how it’s done!

outrider - January 24, 2012 reply

And the worst thing that can happen to this theory is currently happening.

JJ Hickson jump shots.