It was yet another disappointing blowout loss for the Kings and a bad start to their only back to back to back sequence of the season. Memphis shot 54.9% from the field as a team and was led by Rudy Gay's 23 points and 8 rebounds. The Kings meanwhile had good contributions late from their two rookie guards, with Jimmer Fredette leading the team in scoring with 17 (4-6 from three) and Isaiah Thomas with 15 points.
The Kings were awful on both ends of the court in this one. When Sam Young scores 20 points on you, you know you're doing something wrong. The Grizzlies managed to score a whopping 72 points in the paint. On offense, the ball movement continues to be terrible, and the Kings only had 13 assists to 19 turnovers. The Kings also missed a remarkable amount of layups and tip-ins. Dare I say it, this is a night I missed having Samuel Dalembert on the team.
DeMarcus Cousins did play off the bench after his one game suspension paid leave of absence, and he once again had a tough time finishing at the rim, going 1-5, but continued rebounding well, grabbing 8 in 22 minutes.
The Kings lost this one early as Memphis came out blistering, shooting 60+% to start the game, getting out to a 17 point lead early. Getting out to a strong start is something the Kings have had trouble with in almost all of the games they have played to date (they actually started strong against the Blazers). The Kings eliminated that lead in the 2nd quarter with scrappy defense and hustle to close the half, and went into the break only down 2. Unfortunately, that break came at a bad time, and Memphis regrouped and easily took care of business in the 2nd half.
The frustrating thing about the losses the Kings have had is that they really haven't been all that competitive. We've gotten blown out by the Blazers, Knicks, and now Grizzlies. Chicago we weren't blown out, but it almost felt like we were, the Bulls were essentially in control the entire time.
In each of the losses, the Kings guard duo of Tyreke Evans and Marcus Thornton have struggled. That trend continued tonight, with the two combining for just 14 points on 18 shots. They didn't play much in the 2nd half once the game had essentially been decided. I really don't like how this offense seems to undervalue Marcus Thornton, who is our best scorer. Very rarely do I see plays run for Marcus aside from spot up three opportunities. Most of Marcus's shots are created through isolation opportunities. It is a similar situation for Tyreke.
This "offense" and lack of ball movement leads the Kings to take a ton of tough shots and a lot of jumpers. Regardless of all the easy layups we've missed, we've only had one good shooting game this season and that was against the Lakers where we shot 46.7%. In the other 5 games we've shot 37.8%, 42.2%, 34.9%, 41.2%, and 41%.
The Kings continue to be playing much worse than advertised. I've made excuses for the team in the past week about the extraordinary circumstances leading to the season and the impacted training camp/pre-season. But this cannot continue. Would an interim head coach do any better? I'm not sure. But I don't know if he could do any worse. This team needs a breath of fresh air, because whatever is being tried now is not working.
10 recs | 540 comments
Fire the Maloofs.
VenomySnicket - January 3, 2012
Westphal's post-game comments:
omikron - January 3, 2012
Never ceases to amaze me
How quickly you Editors get these recaps up. I hate to say it, but I think you all put in more time honing your craft then this team does. Well done.
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
It's the StR team of robot monkeys that do most of the work
well… as long as Pookey isn’t hogging them to write his
bookspostsprowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
I don't think I've seen Pookey in 2012
Starting to miss the guy already
SharkKings49 - January 4, 2012
Knowing pookey
He’s on a sabbatical…either self-imposed or site-imposed. I’m sure he’ll be back soon.
Check out his website though, he’s been keeping up on what’s happening – and it’s always an entertaining read:
http://ecink.net/
otis29 - January 4, 2012
Cool
He is just smarter than us, given the events he stays away from the message board.
bignerd - January 4, 2012
It's self imposed.
I’m not coming back either. There’s lot of reasons and frankly I don’t care who likes it or don’t. It’s the best decision for me and that matters a lot to me. I wish everyone well.
pookeyguru - January 4, 2012
Shut the f#ck up
You’ll be back. YOU CAN’T QUIT US!
otis29 - January 4, 2012
Hopefully you'll be back in time
With the PW and Cousins situation plus the string of blowouts, it may be a good time to check out other teams boards.
SharkKings49 - January 5, 2012
Take care Pook
wallywagon11 - January 5, 2012
We just use section214's time traveling Passat and watch the games early
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
And yet you do nothing to change the outcome?
Screw time-space. Kings need to win, who cares if David Stern’s head explodes.
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
Welp, that sucked!
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Rec'd for the Christian Welp reference
Toeontheline - January 3, 2012
On the Fire Westphal bandwagon
aizen07 - January 3, 2012
section214 - January 3, 2012
NOOOOO!!!!!
DON’T BURN THE CHUCKWAGON!!!
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
so much for circling the wagons...
betweentheeyes - January 3, 2012
Hearburn...
No? Too soon?
Rickyflip - January 4, 2012
Hoppin on that bandwagon
Rolling rolling rolling
Move ’em on
Head ’em up
Move ’em on
Head ’em up
Count ’em out
Ride ’em in
Count ’em out
Ride ’em in
Raaaaawwwwhiiiiiiide!!!!
TheFifthMookie - January 3, 2012
we are gonna need a bigger bandwagon...I think it is a "Fire Westphal 65 car cargo train" at this point.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Watching some woman's college basketball right now
and I would bet money that either 1 of these teams could destroy the Kings.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Anybody who is capable of passing the ball
immediately has enough skill to confuse our defense. If they can run too? Well that’s the whole package!
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
haha
Since'89 - January 4, 2012 via iPhone app
Barney got tired of always having to be awesome after losses.
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Watching the Lakers vs Rockets game too
Damn Keven Martin looks like he spent some time in the gym this summer.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Kevin *
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
When does he not
Martin remains one of my favorite players in the NBA and King. Martin is the epitome of hard work pays off and professionalism. I am glad he’s helping a winning team in Houston.
kingme18 - January 3, 2012
I watched that game and was not impressed with him.
The Lakers guarded hid Steve Blake on him and put Kobe on Lowry.
caseycheesecake - January 4, 2012
Ailene?
Caljin - January 3, 2012
This was the kind of season I was afraid of.
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
Always great to have one of those kind of seasons when you're trying to get a new venue built
Chargers ended up in the same mess down in San Diego this year.
athletics68 - January 3, 2012
Yeah,
this could really change Kevin Johnson’s mind…
section214 - January 3, 2012
Agree
They will have the funding all set up, but decide, f*ck it! Kings Suck! I’m out…and I’ve never liked that creep Disney on Ice Crap.
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
Get rid of the Westy.
He sucks.
kwill - January 3, 2012
this times a googleplex.
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
...
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
Oh crap.
kwill - January 3, 2012
dunno if I can handle seeing that one
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Sorry
Too much? It seemed the only one appropriate to how I am feeling
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
I'd really like to know the story behind that picture
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Fairly simple explaination
Dumb ass college kids + Shots of everclear or wild turkey or some other high proof alcohol + lighter = that picture or maybe just
Dumb ass college kids + Photoshop
Blue Dog - January 3, 2012
LMAO!!
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
And a young Ghost Rider is born
A Night At The Arco - January 3, 2012
LOL
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
New spokesman opportunity for DeMarcus
section214 - January 3, 2012
ha ha.
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
…
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
there really are no words, only gifs
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
The Kings are now at 84 assists to 92 turnovers on the season.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
And last year we had a much better ratio of 1675 to 1324
So Westphal’s new “offense” that supposedly promotes ball movement… I’m still waiting to see it.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
Maybe he said bowel movement
In which case I’m glad that we have not seen it.
section214 - January 3, 2012
I see a lot of bowel movement on the court
This whole season looks like one big bowel movement.
nobodyinparticular - January 3, 2012
I miss Pooh, but at least now we have IT.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Hey now be positive
That is 84 more assists than we had at the beginning of the season
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
And don't lecture me on relativity
I’m Newtonian all the way
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
Then why does time slow down when we have the ball?
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
Everywhere but the shot clock.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
PW's system is all about ball movement.
kwill - January 3, 2012
That's one cool magic trick then
Because I see none.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
He's very good at magic
He has appeared as a coach.
kwill - January 3, 2012
It will be a miracle if he continues.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Waiting for his disappearing act.
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
Do you see a point guard?
Because I don’t see one.
Mighty Mouse excepted.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
Rajon Rondo...
Couldn’t lead this team to a victory… They have far bigger problems than finding a “true pg”
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
You can move the ball without a PG
Beno wasn’t really a pass first point guard either, although I think we are missing him this year mainly because he isn’t John Salmons.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
Yep
Look at the 00-01 Kings. You just need willing and good passers, and a system that uses their talents.
kwill - January 3, 2012
They had a pretty decent point guard, if I'm remembering correctly.
And ain’t none of these guys Webber, Peja, DC or Vlade.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
No kidding
But they will never be close with the system that PW now employs.
kwill - January 3, 2012
Beno did keep the offense moving
There have been more than a few times I have missed him this season, and not just because I see John Salmons instead.
MichaelMack - January 3, 2012
it does move, from the dribbler's hand bouncing to the floor and up.
'tough as nails' spence - January 4, 2012
THIS is our problem
Bill Simmons was right, that the Kings should be named the black holes. Every assist made seems like a mistake right now. There is simply no trust, no ball movement, no sense of pride in passing.
Passing is the lifeblood of an offense. Without passing, the offense dies and ultimately the team will too. We HAVE to correct the passing issue, and I think it starts at PG. I would LOVE to trade John Salmons to the Clippers for Mo Williams right now.
Smills9133 - January 3, 2012
.
elSAVinator - January 3, 2012
I concur, Glen. I concur.
kwill - January 3, 2012
Westphal shaved his beard
like a samurai who has lost his honor
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
like a Ronin who serves no master
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
But Westphal will not fall on his sword like he needs too.
kwill - January 3, 2012
Is he pretending to cry or is that sincere?
MichaelMack - January 3, 2012
I don't see any tears if that is an indication of anything.
Slam_Dunk - January 4, 2012
It's Glen Beck. He is the rare "analyst" that is hated by both sides of the political spectrum.
tomroadrunner - January 4, 2012
He is almost a unifier... Almost.
tomroadrunner - January 4, 2012
You know, we're 1-0 with DMC on the bench.
In fact, we won 61 games one year without him.
Refute that.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
We have not played 61 yet.
How bout that?
kwill - January 3, 2012
Joke comprehension fail.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
Haha...Yep.
I had hoped no one would notice. Thanks a lot.
kwill - January 3, 2012
Alright, Tyreke!!!....................................... Damitt, Tyreke!!!
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
Man, I just can't stop laughing at this.
Jim Les - January 3, 2012
Me too
That kid’s expression is better than most of the vapid morons on TV these days.
athletics68 - January 3, 2012
Point guard
Point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard point guard….
StevenG - January 3, 2012 via mobile
That may not cure the sickness....
aizen07 - January 3, 2012
Coach
coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach coach
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
3 things we need
Real point guard
Real center
Real Coach
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Truly Incompetent Coaching
Without any doubt you are correct. I would reverse the order, however. A real coach first, one who brings discipline and earns respect. I was a D3 head coach once upon a time and you gain respect by allocating playing time correctly. No one respects Westphal. He is just acting.
A real center would be great. But we’ll never get one till we have a coach who is respected.
The whole NBA knows that Westphal is a sham. No quality veteran wants to play for him. While Cousins may be a head case (I think he’s just immature and needs a father figure), he is NOT wrong about PW.
Tyreke has the capacity to be a really good point guard. He needs discipline and good coaching. It’ll never happen here.
It may be that the Kings need to leave and go to different owners. The Maloofs don’t have a clue and Petrie has them entirely smoked. We don’t need Chuck Wagon, we don’t need Salmons, we don’t need Cisco. Dead weight, all thanks to Petrie.
Good insights, Ninja
Seeanew
seeanew - January 3, 2012
Touche!!
Absolutely agree to the fullest. And yea, I didn’t mean those 3 things in that particular order. I never understood signing Hayes & letting Dalembert go. It made no sense whatsoever and Hayes got grossly overpaid. Dalembert played very solid last year in way too few of minutes. I’ll never understand the point of bringing back Salmons, nor hooking up Charlotte with a 2nd lottery pick while we moved lower and got the weaker player. Kemba woulda been perfect for us IMO.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER
Shizzo - January 3, 2012
Mushroom Mushroom
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
hahahahahaha
that was like 10 yrs ago…. oh nostalgia
Makdeeznut - January 3, 2012
Guess I got my badger back
only 9 months ago :)
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
I hate dubstep
Shizzo - January 3, 2012
rec'd
for having taste
TheFifthMookie - January 3, 2012
You guys are old
Blue Dog - January 3, 2012
I don't even know what dubstep is
but I know I wouldn’t like it
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
there ain't a whole lot of mustic out there I like right now
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
I have become very jaded in the music department
Ever since emo, music has just been demolished, and don’t even get me started on whatever happened to hip-hop. And I’m young too, I guess it just comes from being a musician and having standards.
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
There is hope
I’m old, and I said the same thing when soft rock took over in the early seventies, followed by disco.
polotown - January 4, 2012
it sounds like
wubwubwub
donk
bump
tap
wub
weeeooooaaah
Kind of like if you put shoes in a dryer, and then played some siren sounds from a toy fire engine, then pressed record.
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
Ha! Low Temp or Permanent Press?
blknblu - January 4, 2012
The variety comes from
did you put combat boots or sneakers in the dryer?
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
Ah of course.
blknblu - January 4, 2012
How many games does GP
has to wait too fire PW to make it look like it wasnt cause of Cousins?
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
Why would it matter at this point?
Would it become a bigger circus?
DiegoKing - January 3, 2012
It would send the wrong message to Cousins.
We don’t want him or the league thinking he’s in charge of the team.
CoolFinity - January 4, 2012
Unless we clean house and trade Cousins and Fire PW
SharkKings49 - January 4, 2012
Fire Westphal!
kwill - January 3, 2012
Paul Westphal:
“I like what Jimmer and IT brought to the team tonight, I tthink thats a combo we will use to start tomorrows game” . . . . Small Sample Institute approved.
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
Are you effffing kidding me?
kwill - January 3, 2012
That's twice in the last 5 minutes kwill...
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
I should just go to sleep now.
kwill - January 3, 2012
LOL
I think we all should after that game
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
PW's system is always changing
That’s the system.
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
I know you intended this as a joke
But now people at Kingsfans and realgm are quoting it as fact hahaha
omikron - January 3, 2012
That's pretty funny
What’s not so funny is that PW may actually do it.
SharkKings49 - January 4, 2012
Thanks for reminding me
of the awesomeness that is StR
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
In this case, the samples are literally "small"
tomroadrunner - January 4, 2012
Kings New Year's Resolutions
1. I, Marcus Thornton, will never, ever bring up the ball and attempt to initiate the offense.
2. I, Travis Outlaw, will stop shooting threes. In fact, I will limit my offensive contributions to tip-ins, receiving ally-oops, and grabbing offensive boards.
3. I, Tyreke Evans, will stop putting superglue on my hands before games. I will learn to pass the ball. I will stop driving to the paint into three defenders. I will stop leaving my feet before I pass.
4. I, John Salmons, um, what Tyreke said.
5. I, Paul Westphal, will stop trying to make Tyreke Evans into a point guard. I will no longer require DeMarcus Cousins to take Ritalin before games. I will ask my assistant coaches to design a motion offense.
6. I, DeMarcus Cousins, will play with controlled fire so that I don’t burn myself or my team. Or my bridges. I will move my feet on defense, because I have quick feet. I will take the ball up with two hands and throw it down. I will stop tipping rebounds to the opposing team.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Jimmer makes no New Year's Resolutions
The New Year resolves to be more like Jimmer.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
True.
And Isaiah Thomas makes no resolutions becaue he’s so quick, time is not linear.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
He goes backwards in time.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
If it is Jimmer's wish, that is.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Isaiah Thomas is so quick
One time he went 88mph and went back to 1960 to father Isiah Lord Thomas III, just so he could be named after him
Widowwolf - January 4, 2012
And going with the physics theme
John Salmons resolves to cease being a black hole who’s gravity is so high that balls cannot escape him.
A Night At The Arco - January 3, 2012
7. I, the Maloof family, will stop fucking around and sell the team to Burkle.
Blue Dog - January 3, 2012
The ball movement comes to a standstill when Thornton and Evans run the backcourt.
Again, I can’t stand Marcus bringing the ball across the half court line. I love both players, but the team may be better served with a different rotation. Who’s for Marcus as our 6th man of the year? Shit, did I just advocate another lineup change? I assure you, I’m not PW.
adamsite - January 3, 2012
I actually kind of agree with this
start Jimmer or Isaiah and bring Marcus off the bench as a scoring punch that plays starters minutes anyways.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
Or start Thornton & Thomas with Evans at the 3.
You can plug in Jimmer off the bench at the 1 or 2.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
This is fine, as long as Marcus is not brining the ball across half court and setting up the offense.
adamsite - January 3, 2012
Sounds good to me
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Or start Jimmer, Thornton, and Evans
and make Salmons the new sideline reporter.
AnotherStupidSN - January 3, 2012
I personally like a...
Jimmer, Evans, Garcia,. lineup
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Agreed
SoCal Diplomat - January 3, 2012
dang i said this long ago.
Thronton can be a jason terry type player…still get his minutes and points but come off the bench.
Bambooozled - January 3, 2012 via mobile
If IT can play like he played tonight
absolutely start Isaiah
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
I agree BUT I think the mindset is already
every man for himself. I just can’t see Thornton accepting a 6th man role on this crappy, dysfunctional team.
EJ08 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Again
the coachs job is to manage egos and get the players to buy into their system… FIRE PW!
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
Forget the lineup change
Get a coach change.
kwill - January 3, 2012
The Dude cannot abide this ball movement
Mike Garza - January 3, 2012
Its Westy
after he got fired from his last gig
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
Goatee and all
CoolFinity - January 4, 2012
I'm done for tonight.
Westphal sucks. That is all.
kwill - January 3, 2012
At this point
I would imagine that PW wouldn’t really care if he gets fired. He’s a smart guy. He knows he’s not going to be back next year. Pride would be the only thing keeping the fire burning to stay on. I can’t see that coaching this team is rewarding in any other way than a nice paycheck.
EJ08 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Any chance Keith Smart can turn this ship around?
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
No, nope, negatory
EJ08 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
I hope something changes, and soon!
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Casspiway
section214 - January 3, 2012
Chuck Hanks?
Jim Les - January 3, 2012
That chick from Bosom Buddies needs a shave.
andy sims - January 3, 2012
Cool photo of PW at the locker room play board...how' you get that?
Is that Cousins blowing his hair back?
adamsite - January 3, 2012
At least after I am put into a somber mood by watching the Kings play
Sactown Royalty comes up with post game comedic gems.
Ba-Da Bing - January 3, 2012
Sign Lady's husband?
Jim Les - January 3, 2012
Where is Wilson when you need him.
Blue Dog - January 3, 2012
Point Guard
Start Jimmer at the point with Thomas as his back up. Jimmer is the only player on the team that can pass and Thomas does a nice job penetrating and kicking out. Evans is not a PG. Can’t pass and can’t shoot. Make him a point forward like a poor mans LeBron James. Jimmer will score 20 per game if he starts and have more assists than Evans will ever get. Play Thornton at the 2. That said I’ve got no idea what to do inside. Cousins doesn’t want to play and the rest of them can’t.
bankers hours - January 3, 2012
Yet....
Tyreke leads our team in assists….
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
and it's nothing to brag about at the moment
adamsite - January 3, 2012
yet something to talk about...
As we all know his ball movement isn’t great…
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
2.8 assists per game
Impressive
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Before this game
Tyreke got 4..
Jimmer 1…
That is 3 for Reke
2.5 for Jimmer now?(math might be wrong)
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Not impressed in any way. Dissapointment continues
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Wasn't pointing out to impress
Just that the biggest criticism of lack of ball movement is directed at the person who has the most assists…
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Yea but my point is 4 assists isn't gonna get it done
Evans should easily average 6-8 assists per game. He can get even more than that.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
And my point is the entire team isn't passing the ball
Out out of all of the black voids, Tyreke current is one of the leasts. Therefore, singling him out like he is the actual problem with the team is uncalled for.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Read my other comments
I have never singled Evans out for anything. The “actual problem” with the Kings happens to be their Owners & head coach, as well as the fact that the team has no center & the only true point guard on the team is Isaiah Thomas. Let’s not forget Petrie’s brilliant decision to sign Chuck Hayes over bringing back Dalembert.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Considering how selfish this team is playing
4+ assists per game for a rookie who has played a total of five regular season games is not all that bad. And that’s without him running the offense most of the game.
What Evans should average and what he does average are not the same thing. And honestly, it’s not just about assists, it’s about ball movement. Jimmer gets the ball up the court quickly and gets it moving most of the time. Tyreke just doesn’t.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
Jimmer isn't selfish like Reke.
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
Jimmer didn't get 4 assists tonight, he got 1, in 29 minutes.
Evans is the one who got 4 assists, in 26 minutes. But I will agree with you that Fredette gets the ball moving more than Tyreke does.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
If it wasn't for the 4 turnovers, and 4 for 11 shooting I'd be impressed
HighTops - January 3, 2012
LOL
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Season numbers not one game
SavageBeast - January 4, 2012
I think we can ALL agree we need a new PG but...
There is also another aspect to playing PG aside from passing that we’r missing. LEADERSHIP. A point guard is supposed to talk with the team, point out assignments, fix spacing issues, timing. When has anyone seen Tyreke communicate at all with the rest of the team mates mid-offense? RARELY EVER. Another reason why Tyreke is NOT a point guard, besides the fact that he can’t/won’t pass the ball and his no floor vision.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Simply put
Tyreke is not a leader.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
There are no leaders.
If you look at the Kings roster, nobody is designated a captain.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Exactly.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Hayes is the captain
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
Fire Hayes!
section214 - January 3, 2012
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
According to what?
Not the Kings.com roster.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
It was mentioned in an article among all of the Hayes Resurrection hoopla.
I’m not looking it up, but my astounding memory should be proof enough.
AnotherStupidSN - January 3, 2012
Was reported by Jason Jones day after the Kings re-signed Hayes
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
I like chuck hayes
But the vocal leader of your team just can’t be a role player with a minimal role on offense.
If your “point guard” is a personality-free mute, that just ain’t gonna work. Someone has to speak with a voice of authority. this organization currently has no leadership at ANY level.
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
only two guys who seem pretty darn vocal
are the role player with a minimal role on offense and the foul prone know it all sulking asshole who has had a whole one year of experience in the league.
Hawsome.
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Spencer hawes could actually dunk the fucking ball once a week
I miss that goofy bastard
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
These days hes good for 12 pts 12 reb 1.75 blks and 4 ast a game.
We could have used that tonight
SharkKings49 - January 3, 2012
This comment along should be proof to GP changes are necessary
HighTops - January 3, 2012
And this isn't a knock on Tyreke.
He just isn’t the vocal leader type. Yet PW still thinks he is point guard material. Why? Because he can handle the ball well? Another reason why PW needs to go.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Good point RTB
I can hardly ever recall Reek vocalizing, or even gesturing, to his teammates what play he is running or where they should be set up at.
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
How can Tyreke get assists when there is no offense
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
By running actual plays and passing the ball when he has no good open opportunity to score
But Tyreke won’t do that until he gets an actual coach
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
He also plays 10 minutes more per game than Fredette.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Jimmer played 2 minutes 39 seconds more than Tyreke tonight
3 less assists
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
The Small Sample Size Institute approves of this post.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
So does the Jimmer career sample size...
However, you’re missing the point.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Enlighten me.
Because it looked like your point was that Tyreke is a good distributor.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
You replied to me when I said...
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
No where didI say
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Per 36 minutes
Jimmer is averaging 4.2, Evans is averaging 5,4. This is Evans 3rd season. Jimmer has played 5 games. Evans tends to play with the starters. JImmer tends to play with bench players.
Sorry if Evans’ passing isn’t bowling me over.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
I never said it was...
I was pointing out that singling out Evans is ridiculous… this is a team problem, not an evans problem.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
I agree completely
But I also think part of the problem is not having any movement and Evans is never going to make that happen as a PG in my opinion. Maybe it is the coaching, but I’d be amazed to see Evans ever play that role.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
Evans gets the vast majority of PG minutes.
It’s not even close. Half the time Fredette is in, he’s with Thomas, so he’s at the off guard position.
Evans is averaging the same number of assists as a rookie who plays ten minutes less per game. So, yeah, I think that’s a huge problem.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
So you're argument is essentially
he’s the least shittiest of the shitty ball distributors on our team?
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Which was my point on Tyreke
But it went lost, so I’m going this direction to see if it sinks…
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
My point is
That a point guard, particularly one who showed the ability to do so in his rookie campaign, should be averaging more assists than 2.8 in 34+mpg. That when your 34+mpg game point guard is a bad distributor, there will be no ball movement.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
And my overall point
Is this isn’t a Tyreke problem. This is an entire team problem… Cousins also averaged 1.5 APG than he dd last year.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Ok
But the point guard is supposed to be the main distributor. For nearly 35 minutes of a 48 minute game, he is out there not distributing the ball. Which he has in his hands. A lot.
How is anyone else supposed to move the ball when it stays in his hands? It may not be totally a Tyreke problem, but it sure as hell starts there.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Uh, oh
LPA is starting to swear. Stand back! I’m clear out in Boston tonight and even I am nervous.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
Currently Tyreke is dead last in assist ratio for qualified PG's
Linkage
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Thank you.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Youre very welcome
I think…. ;)
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Hollinger stats are cute
Jose Calderon for the all-star one spot! sadly, Chris Paul is only 8th so he misses the all-star bit
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
That's a little patronizing.
So I guess it means nothing that Tyreke is dead last, because Paul is behind Calderon early in the season?
Taking into account also that Paul is playing in a new system.
But yeah, mock any stats that don’t prove your point as “cute”.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
We're getting sidetracked too far
this is the entire teams problem, not tyreke’s. Notice how on your very chart the only player on the Kings that is higher is Thomas and Jimmer
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Not my chart.
But I believe it’s a point guard chart. Those three would be the only ones that the Kings have on their roster.
I agree that the entire team doesn’t move the ball. But you have to admit that Tyreke has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Your guys argument but gotta jump in..
I think our lack of ball movement started last season with cousins being a complete black hole and it spread to tyreke and others…. Selfish basketball is contaigous.
Get Jimmered - January 3, 2012
Agreed, it is the TEAMS issue
But with the glory comes the blame.
Tyreke hasn’t really done anything so far this year to make me feel as though he has grown as a PG, and is still the person everyone is looking to to take a leadership role of this team. As he goes, so go the Kings.
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
I understand why Tyreke is the scapegoat.
But everyone’s APG ratio is down from last years. As much as we mocked the 1, 4 flat from last year. It still netted in more assists. Something in the Kings offense is not even coming close to clicking and I can’t blame that on Tyreke like some freely do.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Shooting
Hello! Cannot get assists if no one ever makes a shot.
Ball movement has been better each game, shot making remains atrocious.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Yes, but we might be the
ultimate make or break team at the moment. I think Cousins is our only option if our outside shots aren’t going in
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
No, they need shooting also. The Blazers eventually packed the paint and took DMC out of the game, blowout ensued.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
I agree
Which is why our offense is so stagnant.. If our deep shot isn’t going in, our only option is cousins.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
One thing that really stands out
to me is the ball movement we have is being generated by the passer running towards the person they are passing to, or kicking it out after getting smothered in the lane.
It absolutely destroys the spacing, and puts everyone in a rushed shot mode of play. The great Kings teams of the 00’s knew where to be on the floor and passed accordingly. I don’t know if its due to inexperience or poor coaching, but the spacing on this Kings team is oftentimes horrendous.
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
I wish this Kings team ran their offense a little more like the old Kings teams
and run it through our bigs.
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Our current bigs are nothing close to what we had then
dampania - January 3, 2012
I agree
but could still be our two best passers
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
Exactly
I think DeMarcus would do great in the high post. He’s a pretty good passer when he has some spacing
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
I think that's what their trying to do
But it doesn’t work when the off ball screens are weak and nobody is trying or able to backdoor cut.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
The reserves run it better than the starters
Jimmer has thrown a couple nice darts to guys going backdoor to the rim.
With the starters, it seems like everyone is waiting for a sign to initiate their cut or screen, but no one is giving the start signal.
I think this is a team that needs to see their shots falling early to get confidence.
markdog333 - January 4, 2012
the point is,
you can’t get assists if nobody scores.
Team can’t shoot worth a damn now.
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
But they could start making more baskets if they have someone who can create plays.
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
I agree.
However, a good playmaker won’t make much of a difference if the rest of the team isn’t getting into the spots where they can make shots.
And that’s what’s coming across to me. Yes, we have ball movement, yes we have floor spacing, but it seems like the movement and spacing are taking the players away from where they want to be – and therefore when they do go to where they want to be, the entire system collapses.
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
Can't create unless someone moves
The only thing this team does is drive and kick. NO back cuts, no screens off the ball. 2 guys gi stand on the weakside and the other 3 get in each other’s way trying to score.
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
You guys are all right.
The movement is terrible and even if somebody does get open, nobody finds them.
Tyreke will NEVER be a point guard. Who cares about his assist ratios? Just watch the game and it becomes clear as day that he over dribbles and rarely finds the open man. Its not all his fault. But it is 1 part of the problem. The fact is we need a coach who can identify and fix the problem. That coach is NOT Westfail.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
surrrre
The guy dribbling the life out of the ball who plays POINT GUARD shouldn’t have any more responsibility than anyone else.
And you can keep saying “thats not what I’m saying” but your implication is obvious
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
How many of those minutes was jimmer playing point guard
youre really hanging on to this horrible point for dear life
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
He's Tyreke
and his argument is the basketball.
caseycheesecake - January 4, 2012
While averaging the same number of assists as Fredette.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Hell Spencer Hawes
is averaging 4 assists! We seriously need a true point guard, or at the very minimum, more ball movement!
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
That's more a reflection on the Kings than it is Tyreke.
Briceratops - January 3, 2012
Kind of my point
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
What the hell happened to the 20-5-5 Evans? seriously...
kingme18 - January 3, 2012
You know how it is
Nothing is ever as good as the first time!
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Swish
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
I'm beginning to have buyer's remorse.
That ’12 Rubio is looking REAL nice
Shizzo - January 3, 2012
I am starting to as well
Tyreke is undoubtedly the better player, but Rubio (or someone of his ilk) is what we need.
thelettere - January 3, 2012
Exactly.
Reke is a stud, but a square peg right now.
blknblu - January 3, 2012
I would argue Rubio is a better play today at this very moment.
Shizzo - January 3, 2012
You put Rubio into this horrible system, and you would get worse results
At least Tyreke can drive to the basket, and make some jumpshots.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Along with about
5 other Kings, some of whom will actually pass the ball to open teammates as plan A instead of plan “Bailout”…
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
Fun fact
Rubio is shooting better than everyone on the Kings not named Jason Thompson.
Aykis16 - January 4, 2012
Last time I checked his 3P% is better than Jimmers.
That’s depressing
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
ouch
that’s not really ‘fun’
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
Rubio is at 50% (4-8), Jimmer is at 36% (9-25)
Not really fair to make comparisons based on that, but still not fun.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
SSSI
approves of those shooting percentages
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
tyreke can make jumpshots???
lchristmas - January 4, 2012
His set shot has looked pretty good this year
he just hasnt gotten a lot of chances to use it thus far
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Doesn't hurt that
they have Adelman. I wish we still had him. :(
syangers - January 4, 2012
also doesnt hurt they have a completely unselfish star to build around in Kevin Love
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Was Keith Smart a Petrie want or a PW want...just wondering which way the winds are blowing.
adamsite - January 3, 2012
I read somewhere that Westphal...
spent three hours at Smart’s house convincing him to join our team instead of going to Dallas. He chose here also so he wouldn’t have to uproot very far.
dampania - January 3, 2012
That didn't necessarily answer the question though
dampania - January 3, 2012
first time here; you guys are freaking hilarious...rough game...
Soonerbronco - January 3, 2012
Welcome!
The suicide pills will be distributed in a few minutes.
lead_pipe - January 3, 2012 via mobile
So we're 2-4 now right?
For a .333 record. So that’s 22 wins. Oh the panicking.
Lotusprime - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Only 4 more less wins
and 11 less losses!!! than last year!
HeuristicLineup - January 3, 2012
which I think is pretty much exactly were most thought we would be at this point
The teams that we have lost to should beat us, but this offense has been painful to watch against them.
markdog333 - January 4, 2012
We should've played better
Against NY without Amare and the Grizz without Randolph. But you’re right, it’s been brutal to watch for the most part so far.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
Cousins body language tonight was TERRIFYING.
Smills9133 - January 3, 2012
It always is, isn't it?
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Not as much as tonight,
in fact the first 3-4 games this season he looked like he was actually having fun to me.
Smills9133 - January 3, 2012
True.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Westphal gotta go
But at least we really might have a shot at Perry Jones or Harrison Barnes in the draft
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Hm, not a bad strategy
if we go 2-64 we’ll be virtually assured drafting high enough to get a good PG…
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
2-64 will get us the 4th pick
section214 - January 3, 2012
Anthony Davis here we come!
Smills9133 - January 3, 2012
Beat me to it
Briceratops - January 3, 2012
dammit section I hate it when you're right
sj60615 - January 3, 2012
which we will then move for the 7th pick
and Jamal Crawford
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
But only after trading for three other mediocre swingmen.
Carl - January 3, 2012
We'd probably get the fourth pick again.
Lottery hates the Kings.
Briceratops - January 3, 2012
Dude, it's the NBA Draft Lottery.
Ain’t no way…NO WAY…they’ll let us have the first pick.
SierraSpartan - January 3, 2012
If it's ever gonna happen, it'd be this year if we had one of the worst records again.
Even if we don’t get 1st pick, which I’m sure we wouldn’t, we could still get 2nd.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Yeah, the draft lottery has worked well for us the past few years.
adamsite - January 3, 2012
I say
Start Thomas at PG to get the ball moving. He might shoot 20 times but at least he passes the ball. Get Salmons out of the starting line-up and put Tyreke at SF. The defense can’t get any worse.
F3RRi3R - January 3, 2012
I like IT but...
he runs every play like a fast break. The Kings want to run by playing good defense but to be assured of a good basket and not a rushed shot, it needs to be slowed down and the ball has to be swung around to stretch the defense.
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
Kings SHOULD
fast break more. I said it last year, we’re full of youth and with Tyreke’s abilities / limitations, fast breaking should be our #1 priority, its the one thing we do well when we get the chance…
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
In order to run a fast break
You need to defend well enough to keep them from making shots, and then you have to rebound, and then you have to have someone with enough court vision who is a good enough passer to hit the guy running down the floor. Which means you also need guys who anticipate a fast break and run down the floor.
So… there’s kind of a lot of reasons we don’t run fast breaks.
LeaguePassAddict - January 4, 2012
So what are you saying,
We can’t defend, rebound, pass well, or anticipate the flow of the game…?
loops belt around shower curtain rod
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
or
(loops belt around shower curtain rod)
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
Our defense would look a lot better if we shot better than 40%
Our missed shots lead to their fast break which leads to their made easy baskets which leads to our half court offense which leads to our missed shots.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
slowed down on the inbounds that is...
pauleyusmc - January 3, 2012
I'd much rather have Thomas starting than Salmons.
I’m all for playing Evans at 3.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
I worry a bit about the enthusiasm for IT, remembering the enthusiasm for Pooh last season
I still haven’t gotten to watch a game, but do they play a similar style? I was sad last year as, with more minutes, Pooh seemed to look more and more for his jumper. Didn’t find it.
lead_pipe - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Isaiah has a jumper
And he’s way faster and more athletic than Pooh.
Aykis16 - January 4, 2012
And I thought Pooh was super fast
Isaiah is on yet another level.
Aykis16 - January 4, 2012
IT has a player efficiency rating of 25.44
for comparison, Derrick Rose has 23.56. IT is clearly doing something right!
Skeptical Dawg - January 4, 2012
Now, I know PW said Demarcus wasn't going the same direction as the team...
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
Cool photo of PW in the half time locker room talk...how'd you get that?
Is that Cousins with the “distractive” disco lights?
adamsite - January 3, 2012
That is from the throbbing veins in Cuz's head.
fryingpan136 - January 3, 2012
Have my sources
Might be why the Kings always come out in the second half looking all disoriented.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
Jason Jones Twitter
Jimmered. - January 3, 2012
Uh...
OK, who let Westphal get into the liquor cabinet in 1st class again?
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
That
Is hilarity.
Lotusprime - January 3, 2012 via mobile
What the hell is going on?
omikron - January 3, 2012
I know everyone will think I am crazy.
But I thought DMC actually tried tonight. Even if his motives were to just make PW look bad, I still believe he did put in a effort. He was actively trying to get in position to rebound and play some D. Sure in the 2nd half he did miss some easy buckets, primarily 2 as soon as he was put into the game cold in the 3rd period. Also the opposing team is collapsing on him due to the fact that our perimeter players can’t make open shots.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
He may have "tried"
But his results were flat out embarrassing. Your 7 feet tall for fuchs sake THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN, ONE TIME!!!
For someone who acts like such a badass, he is really a big ole puss… And coming into the game “cold”??? What kind of excuse is that? Do other bench players in the league come in with a. heating pad?
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
The "anyone can bring the ball up" philosophy isn't working...
Have you guys noticed after a defensive rebound, Thompson/Hayes/Hickson are looking back and forth between two players waving for the ball. They pause for a moment to decide and then throw that pass. That pause should never have to occur.
Our bigs should be looking for the designated point guard. Why? Because point guard is not about who dribbles the ball past halfcourt, it’s about who initiates the offense. The offensive system should require the point guard to look at options presented by the defense and attack via pass or penetration. But most of all point guard is about leadership. Westphal has determined that this team doesn’t need a designated floor leader, and by the looks of things, he couldn’t be more wrong.
BurningFeathers - January 3, 2012
I 100% agree.
There is no floor general. We had that in Beno…. and we traded him? So we traded away Beno and K-Mart? And we are left with MT23 and Tyreke. Another reason why Geoff Petrie might be on the block himself.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
MT3 doesn't dribble well enough to handle the ball a lot
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
The Yeti
just wasn’t the answer for a full time PG. Yeah, this sucks, but it would still suck if he was still here.
TheFifthMookie - January 3, 2012
Beno thornton tyreke
>>> tyreke thornton salmons.
Not close.
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Beno thornton tyreke
>>> tyreke thornton salmons.
Not close.
lchristmas - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Def on the Fire Westphal wagon now. Don't even care if DMC thinks he got his way.
Cause the fact of the matter is, the whole LOCKER ROOM will probably feel they got their way.
Shizzo - January 3, 2012
it's tough without a floor general out there...setting up other players...
Soonerbronco - January 3, 2012
I can't remember a more awkward situation int he NBA than this DMC affair...
Soonerbronco - January 3, 2012
Reading this
is more depressing than watching the game.
Tomorrow is another opportunity to get it right. Let’s not give up on our young team and old coach just yet. The season is 10 days old.
I think Denver will be a tough one to win on the road, but think we can beat the Bucks at home Thursday.
NewEraKings - January 3, 2012
I've given up on the coach
Seen enough of his ever revolving rotations, undefined roles, odd substitutions, poor game management, public bickering with players, bad playbook…
Nice guy though, lol
dampania - January 3, 2012
Been hearing "tomorrow" for far too long now brotha.
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
I hope they fail miserably.
Otherwise the front office may still have a little faith in PW after another random win which will just delay the inevitable, the replacing of Paul Westphal. Lets lose and lose BIG. This way there is no doubt in Geoff Petrie’s mind that PW needs to go.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
So you are now rooting for loses so PW will get fired more quickly?
GIFSoup
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
And Charles doesn't approve of the way I spelled losses either
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
Charles doesn't approve of anything having to do with the Kings.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Actually he likes Westphal
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
Probably
Because Barkley was the “favorite son” on Westphal’s Suns team.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
Westphal is fine as a veteran's coach
The Suns were a talented, savvy veteran team.
blknblu - January 3, 2012
Are you listening to yourself?
We play to win the game!
Lotusprime - January 3, 2012 via mobile
You're beating
A dead horse. And as long as PW is head coach, winning will continue to be that dead horse.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
senseing a Gene Wilder theme
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Yessir
Going with Gene Wilder themes for today to bring some sort of levity to this mess.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
I agree
We don’t need some faux run delaying the inevitable. PW can’t coach and the sooner they make the change the better. They had a decent run to start off his first year, then preceded to suck up the rest of the season. They ended last season on a decent run that gave some hope for this year, now this.
We’ve seen enough.
dampania - January 3, 2012
I wish I had a little bit of faith in the FO. But I don´t care anymore what they think.
rubenho - January 4, 2012
Why did Salmons minutes get cut so bad? Just bad play or injury?
Thanks. Looking forward to the Denver game tomorrow. I’m covering it for Denver Stiffs.
Nate Timmons - January 3, 2012
Picked up a lot of quick fouls
But he also played pretty terribly.
omikron - January 3, 2012
Cool, thanks man.
Nate Timmons - January 3, 2012
Someone actually concerned with Salmons getting less minutes...?
Impossible. Are you his wife in disguise?
SoCal Diplomat - January 3, 2012
haha, just doing a position breakdown ... thought if he was hurt then someone else would be starting.
Mrs. Salmons I am not! ha
Nate Timmons - January 3, 2012
He's been a foul machine this year so far.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
He looks slow on defense these days
blknblu - January 3, 2012
He's had some tough matchups so far
Kobe, Wallace, Carmelo, and Gay so far. But for a guy that was brought in to guard the other teams best wing, he’s been struggling to say the least.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
The way I recall it
PW was excited to have someone on the team Tyreke could kick it out to and make a jumper. That being said, he has had one hell of a two week stretch…
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
We're both correct according to PW statements at the time.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
Was getting schooled by Rudy Gay...
He has a tough time with some of the stronger 3’s in the league which was the case with world peace too
Get Jimmered - January 3, 2012
I bet you´re looking forward to it then...always nice to anticipate a great free meal.
rubenho - January 4, 2012
Because salmons shot terrible, he also played bad defense and allowed gay to score A LOT of easy points in the 1st quarter, which pissed me off.
CousinsEvansDUO - January 3, 2012
Loved that last part, haha! Thanks for the info.
Nate Timmons - January 3, 2012
PW also put Salmons back into the game with 3:30 left in the 1st half.
I don’t see the point to putting a player back into the game so late. Now Salmons gets thrown back in the game cold on a hot Rudy Gay. How does that make any sense? Doesn’t excuse Salmons play but it definitely does not help.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
The good news
The Kings wont 2 out of 4 quarters. Go second unit!
BurningFeathers - January 3, 2012
Enough games to see some trends
I’m not as basketball smart as some people here but …
1) The assist numbers suggest ball movement but by far the Kings biggest problem is shooting. Reke does move the ball, initiate an offense and kick out for open opportunities but shots never go down. Shooting percentage doesn’t lie, no one can make a consistent shot.
2) Its one thing to miss a lot of outside shots, and they do, but as a team they cannot hit a bucket a foot from the rim to save their life either. Even worse, every time they miss down low its always an easy transition bucket the other way.
3) Thorton and Evans both starting falls right into the law of diminishing returns.Thorton is their 2nd best guard but he needs to come off the bench. Both are high volume scorers who need the ball and aren’t spot up shooters. Absolutely mimizing both players value playing both at the same time so regularly.
4) Good parts but this machine doesn’t work. Something is missing. Can play really well for two quarters than get absolutely blown off the floor for the other two. Essentially I think their terrible shooting catches up to them.
Thought Demarcus was a complete dog for most of his minutes tonight. Wasn’t even good when he decided to do something.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Disagree with DMC dogging it
He hit the boards, he boxed out, set screens for the shooters.
He did seem to avoid shooting anything farther out than 5 feet. I think that was intentional because he probably got called selfish for taking too many outside shots. This looked esp true when he first came in.
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
That explains his finishing this game.
“See coach, I can’t hit anything from this close in!”
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
I 100% agree with this.
I really thought he put in an effort tonight. He didn’t play well, but he tried.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Except he did nothing to get open for an entry pass and when teammates tried to force it in there he left him hanging with a turnover. Failed to get back on defense constantly.
I’m not so sure he was setting screens but trying to make himself look like he was doing something. For all those picks he never once tried to roll out towards the basket.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
I think you have reached the point where DMC can do no right
(not that there is anything wrong with that)
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
Don't project onto me
His job description didn’t change. He is not out there to set screens the entire game and it’s all he did. What great play or hustle moment did he have out there? None. Even worse, he didn’t even attempt to play his game.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Yes he sure made alot of mistakes.
I don’t doubt that. But I really thought he tried. Especially after the PW vs Cousins incident, of course he would want to go out and drop 20 points with 20 boards. But the truth is he wasn’t too good tonight and looked sluggish… along with the ENTIRE team – our rookies.
People are definitely going to take a close,hard look at Cousins and criticize his every error with no slack allowed after this whole trade rumor debacle. Cousins had many ugly games last season but people looked past them because he showed flashes of brilliance. And I think under the right system with the right coach he can succeed.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
It reminded me of the game where Kobe decided he wasn’t going to shoot. In this case Demarcus did nothing to initiate his own offense.
He’s 21, I’ll give him a game or two to sulk and get over it. However I don’t think he took court looking to play tonight.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
He played hard when he actually caught up to the play
Lots of slowness getting up and down the court.
otis29 - January 4, 2012
Some thoughts
Donte supposed to be pretty good one day, never happened
JT looked like the PF we needed desperately since we lost webber & sharif went down, never happened
Spencer Hawes was supposed to be our franchise center after B. Miller, never happened
Kevin Martin was our franchise 2 guard, until he all of a sudden wasn’t good enough
We trade Kevin for Landry who was supposed to give us that inside scoring punch we desperately needed, somehow he turned into a jump shooter
Tyreke was supposed to be mini-Lebron, the savior of the franchise, now he sucks & should be traded because we have a new savior in….
Marcus Thornton who now somehow is just a spot up shooter
Demarcus Cousins is supposed to be a sure fire franchise center, now he can’t make a 1 foot shot
Omri was on the rookie all-star team, “the steal of the draft! We really got over in that Ron Artest trade getting Donte AND OMRI!” then he was traded for…….
JJ Hickson! Who was once thought to be a building block in Cleveland. A deal breaker in a possible Amare trade. Now, well I have no idea what he is now
John Salmons was suppose to give us a scoring punch, a veteran presence, a top notch defender, someone to take the scoring pressure off Tyreke. And well he’s John Salmons. Actually he’s a much lesser Salmons then the one we once had
Tyreke was supposed to be a PG, no need to keep Beno around
I’m sure there is more but I’m burnt out
FIRE WESTPHAL 2012!
Allbenji - January 3, 2012 via mobile
I don't remember anyone expecting JT to replace Webber
prowseinthehouse - January 3, 2012
I didn't mean he would be webber
If you remember after webber we had K9(woof!) who sucked, so we signed Shareef to play alongside Brad. When he went down we signed Mikki Moore to play with Brad. We drafted Spencer to take over for Brad but we still desperately needed a PF. So we drafted JT. JT looked good his rookie year. He had trouble staying out of foul trouble but looked to be a possible 14-10 PF.
I didn’t mean another ‘’Webber" just a starting quality PF we’ve been looking for SINCE webber. Now he might not even get a qualifying offer from us after his rookie contract.
Allbenji - January 3, 2012 via mobile
I remember everyone...
…going Jason who!?
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Yeah but then he shined at times his rookie year
The he was shock! Shock & Hawes! Remember that??? Now it’s "I’ll be shocked if he’s still here after his rookie deal
Allbenji - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Sorry but he is playing wayyyy better then Hickson at this point..and both contracts are up at the same time…Guaranteed Hickson will ask for more money too
Widowwolf - January 4, 2012
I wouldn't be
he’s a quality 3rd big. Those aren’t exactly a dime a dozen.
Viliphied - January 4, 2012
Depressing to hear about all the guys we traded off. If we had some of them back we might have a pretty good team.
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
Great post Albenji
Sad, but interesting to see it laid out like that too
Dirkula - January 3, 2012
Yeah pretty much.
Donte and JT have regressed, Salmons is passing a little more these days but he looks slower on defense so WHY did we bring him back??!
Reke could maybe be point if Vlade was at the high post, I sure didn’t want Rubio but I sure wish the Kings had a POINT Guard! AAAaaarghhh! You gotta love Jimmer but at SOME POINT you need a starting point guard!!!!
blknblu - January 3, 2012
TYREKE DOES NOT SUCK
I mean c’mon really? Suck?
Get Jimmered - January 3, 2012
I read all that and I think "FIRE PETRIE"
otis29 - January 4, 2012
If that's what you thought
Then maybe we should fire both
Allbenji - January 4, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, that might be the way to go
But then you’ve got the Malindas picking your next GM. Scary stuff.
otis29 - January 4, 2012
Willing to work for cookies, great with powerpoint
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
Sell the team to Burkle
THEN fire Petrie.
Viliphied - January 4, 2012
Yep
The whole time I read that post I was thinking it would end with a FIRE PETRIE! You Rick-Rolled me.
gregory l - January 4, 2012
I also find it scary
that PW has some influence on who Petrie selects in the draft or through trade.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
That's part of my point
Allbenji - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Slump...
Too soon to panic! What’s up with that?
The Kings have had a perpetually changing roster for years. The newest version of the Kings is athletically an upgrade There is competition on this team for playing time. That’s not an excuse, it’s a basketball fact. The abbreviated preseason was brutal!
Were we expecting a smooth, effective, cohesive unit already? If that happens by the all star game…if there is an established rotation playing well together, and competitive on a steady basis…that would be success.
We all need to back off the negatives, and give this team time to develop. Booing the players and coaches on a steady basis is sad. These guys will get it going….in hindsight all the problems of today will be seen a prelude to progress.
zzsjolt - January 3, 2012
Ya
Need to give them a a couple months. But its easy to yell Fire the Coach.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
The season is over in a couple of months.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
This.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
I expect them to at least compete.
They straight gave up in at least 3 of the 6 games.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Name 4 players on this team that are solid at both ends of the floor.
Our big FA acquisition has no offense. JJ is a marginal defender with no outside shot. DeMarcus is learning a new position after playing PF in his 1st season. A position he didn’t play in college. JT is the big that is closest to having a decent defensive and offensive game.
Tyreke has no outside shot and gambles on defense. Thornton gambles on offense and has marginal defense. Jimmer and IT are rookies so who knows that much about their game.
Salmons was a solid defender at the 2 but at the 3? Donte plays some defense but can’t create on his own and his 3pt shooting is suspect. Garcia gets beat off the dribble by 2’s and 3’s and relies on blocks from behind for his defense, and while he’s a clutch 3pt shooter, he only averaged 8pts per game as a starter last season.
As I said at the beginning of training camp, PW is going to have to decide whether to put a defensive or offensive lineup in his rotations. We don’t have enough 2-way players to put one solid team on the floor. In this PW is blameless, the player acquisitions fall on GP and the Maloofs. The fact that the team defense still sucks and players don’t rotate quickly enough does fall on PW.
HighTops - January 3, 2012
Yes. What he said.
MichaelMack - January 4, 2012
I respect your opinion HT but I don't know about this one
How many teams have a team full of 2-way players? Most players have faults. Most players have weaknesses & most players have strengths. To say we should have a team full of great all around players is not realistic on any NBA team.
It’s the coaches job to get the best out of the players he has. I just don’t believe this is our best. If it is then GP & Westphail should be fired.
FIRE WESTPHAL 2012!
Allbenji - January 4, 2012 via mobile
Yes, in fact every player has some weakness
but most good teams have at least 3 starters that are decent offensively and defensively, and one reserve coming off the bench.. I’m just saying that we’re not a good team. And, yes that does fall on GP’s shoulders although the talent that he added aren’t the dredges of the League. I’m just not sure the mixture is balanced well.
You can hide your defensive weaknesses with good team help defense. Offensively it’s much more difficult to hide your lack of good shooters. That’s where running plays to get open shots in the paint really pays off. We knew Chuck couldn’t shot and neither could Tyreke. And, Cousins was the least efficient starting big in the league last season.
In the end your correct, the job of getting the most out of this team falls on the coach. But, If I could see the weaknesses in our roster before the season, which is when I first posted these thoughts, then the coaches and FO surely should have seen them.
I thought Salmons was a solid pickup but for the 2 not the 3. I really wanted them to up the offer to AK47, which would have solidify the 3. But, I hoped we’d get a double double out of DMC with less Usage which would have been a lineup that could be successful. Right now with our first two starting rotations, we win or lose on Thornton’s shooting percentage.
HighTops - January 4, 2012
a great catch and shoot player
who nonetheless has to get all his shots on his own because we dont and cant run plays to get him good shots. (jimmer also)
hence, he looks like a selfish gunner – but its his job to score, so he tries to do it… and round and round we go
any decent fucking coach is running double screens and back screens to get marcus and jimmer open threes. we can’t have nice things.
lchristmas - January 4, 2012
So, um, we suck?
rubenho - January 4, 2012
If, according to what's already been stated in the media
and on this site regarding PW having influence on Petrie and personnel decisions, then by god it most definitely falls on PW. Even more so when you put it into that kind of context HT…
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
I think Petrie only get out scott free if the Maloofs controlled the money he could offer
I also thought that Thornton got too much credit for our success last season. JT and Sammy played some of their best basketball late in the season.
I’ll always wonder whether GP signed Hayes because he thought he was better for the team than Sammy or because he’d sign for less.
HighTops - January 4, 2012
I think he saw it as the closest replacement he could get on the cheap
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
Didn't PW want another big that could pass for his "offense"?
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
Why can't the Maloofs just "bench" PW for one night, and have Smart take the lead...
to see how it goes. I don’t get why we’re allowed to teach players lessons but not coaches.
feelgood - January 3, 2012
Because PW hasn't yelled
“If I’m such a cancer, why don’t you trade me.”
Those are the magic words I tell ya. You can say anything else bad you like about this franchise, but don’t you dare mention the C-word.
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
Westphal is the cancer. There needs to be a cure.
Slam_Dunk - January 3, 2012
Give PW a week off to go relax at the palms
10% off the normal cost since the maloofs own 2% of it.
Let Smart take over and see what happens if he can get Evans averaging 7-8 Assists
Cousins scoring 15 on 50% shooting and actually win games he’s the head coach. If he can’t then were no worse off.
SMART 2012!!
rekehavoc13jimmer7 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Can Jimmer be a PG
Go compare Jimmer’s college career vs Steve Nash. Both played a shade less than the top major college basketball Jimmer at BYU and Nash at Santa Clara. Jimmer was clearly a better college player although I’ll agree Nash in college was a truer point guard. Nash did virtually nothing his first two yrs in the pros before his rise to stardom. I think Jimmer could have a similiar career. Jimmer is a better shooter and scorer than Nash but not as adept as passing. Both play lousy defense. If Jimmer played the point I’d bet he’d average 20 pts and 5 to 6 asists per game. He’d make Thornton and Cousins better. The trump card is could Evans play the point forward or 3 like a Pippen or a poor mans Lebron. It’s wotth a chance, the team stinks the way it’s constructed now.
bankers hours - January 3, 2012
At this point, Jimmer can be coach.
even if he designed all the plays for himself to launch from 30+ feet, we’d be in closer games than tonight.
elfboy_ - January 3, 2012
I really dont see Jimmer as a PG either.
I would agree he can play PG better then Tyreke, but I still don’t see him as our future starting point guard. He is more of a pure shooter in my eyes. He often dribbles himself in to trouble and jumps in the air to make passes like Tyreke.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
But he's a rookie.
Not saying he’s the best PG right now, but he at least seems to want to facilitate plays.
LeaguePassAddict - January 3, 2012
I agree with that.
ridingthebench - January 3, 2012
Always looks to me to be half a step away from a turnover
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
This change may be needed but
I say we give the current starting lineup (well, if it includes Cousins) 10 games to figure it out. If Salmons continues to play like he has been, put him in a box at the end of the bench, close the lid, lock it and throw away the key. Defensive stopper my [colorful language]. Cisco looked better when he got the minutes, Outlaw should not shoot threes.
Is Hickson the only player on the roster with a halfway decent mid-range jumper?
BurningFeathers - January 3, 2012
Nash In College
was a spectacular player. I saw a lot of Santa Clara with him due to the fact my best friend is a Bronco alum. Nash played a game like JWill, passing like a savant from another universe.
AoxomoxoA - January 3, 2012
Yes,
Collegiate performance always tells the tale!
section214 - January 3, 2012
and I would add
Nash’s collegiate performance did not tell the tale of a 2 time NBA MVP assist leader
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Flint's Finest
Only Jackie Moon repped that city better…
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
The Flint Michigan Megabowl.
The Flint Michigan Megabowl…!
THE FLINT MICHIGAN MEGABOWL…!!!!!!
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
Jimmer can run the offense, but not just yet
He has good handles going both left and right, and shoots well off the dribble. Unlike IT when Jimmer gets into the tall trees he doesn’t force up a shot at the rim. Jimmer does what I said Tyreke needed to work on instead of his 3pt shoot, and that is the short to mid range pull up jumper.
Right now Jimmer is getting use to the size and speed of the NBA. He doesn’t know how to get out of the double team and doesn’t move the ball when he sees it coming. Some of that is that he doesn’t know where to find his help and the other players aren’t doing much to help him. Both of these should come with experience.
The only way teams are going to respect the Pick and Roll and follow our bigs out of the paint is if they fear Jimmer’s outside shot. With Tyreke they know that if he is running a P&R with Hayes or JJ, there is nothing to fear about any of them putting up an outside shot. In spite of Tyreke’s efforts to improve his jumper, he’s still a 30% shooter away from the rim.
HighTops - January 4, 2012
I wanted to beieve GP knew what he was doing sooo bad, but
I haven’t seen too many of the experts agree with anything he is doing, besides drafting talent. Is there some kind of blueprint he is building toward? It seems as if GP is just trying to get the most talent he can on the roster, with no planing on how their games will mesh together. I like most of our players, but they just don’t seem to fit together. I know it’s only been 6 games, but do these guys as a collective unit have what it takes to get it done in the future? I’m not so sure.
We have the lowest payroll in the league and on the court it looks like it. I want to go with GP’s crazy thought that we can have a PG that doesn’t create shots for anyone, an undersized two guard that can’t guard bigger wing players, a SF that is really a SG that has the exact same game as our PG, a PF built like a C, and a C built like a SG. I’m optimistic that most of these guys are going to be good players in the league when they grow up, but some of them seem busier carving their own path into the league, then doing what is best for the team and sacrificing some of their own game. Having young guys sacrifice for the better of the team is nearly impossible IMO.
The good news is I believe that we have a lot of valuable assets. We have a lot of good young players that are good by themselves, just not as a unit. We also have a lot of cap space, in fact we have the most cap space. I’ve tried to believe that all these guys are just going to grow up together and be awesome, but I’m not so sure anymore. If we have another terrible season, then I think it’s time to reshuffle the deck. This time though, we will have the cap space and the assets to do something great.
elSAVinator - January 3, 2012
Agreed.
That’s what I’ve been thinking.
blknblu - January 3, 2012
(about talent that doesn’t fit)
blknblu - January 3, 2012
G'Night All see you again tomorrow
When the Kings will shock and amaze us by trouncing Denver, and Aykis will put his army of slave baby labor to work knocking out another great recap.
SavageBeast - January 3, 2012
The Smart Move Is...
put Smart in charge
HighSockWizard - January 3, 2012
Rise the Keith Smart movement.
Get Smart on the phone.
elfboy_ - January 4, 2012
Where is a lttg trade thread when you need one?
elSAVinator - January 3, 2012
Start Jimmer,Thornton,Evans,Hayes,Cousins
And put Cousins down low and try to run the offense through him like the magic do with Dwight Howard. Can’t hurt to try.
rekehavoc13jimmer7 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Also I think Evans should be gaurding
Whoever the other teams best Gaurd or SF is. Evans is at his best on offense when the team is at it’s best on D.
He scores most of his points on the fastbreak.
rekehavoc13jimmer7 - January 3, 2012 via mobile
Amazing!!
The fans are smarter than the coach
HighSockWizard - January 3, 2012
Trade Derrick Coleman
Whoops I mean Demarcus Cousins. Same intials. Same attitude.
HighSockWizard - January 3, 2012
Huh?
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
if we fire Paul..
who do we hire?? i am totally on the bandwagon, but who comes in and takes his place? K. Smart? I think Smart is a good replacement, but what if he doesn’t pan out to be any better..but then again i guess it cant get any worse than this…right??
Sacnutz - January 3, 2012
It can't get any worse
Westphal already lost the team. The sooner they put Smart in the more time he has to put his stamp on the team so he can be evaluated at the end of the year.
dampania - January 3, 2012
That's the problem
I’d be ok with Smart as an interim coach, but I don’t see him as the type of guy who can take us all the way. I think we need to open the pocketbooks and get someone like a Jeff Van Gundy or try to coax Jerry Sloan out of retirement (doubt that will happen). I really DON’T want Don Nelson.
If we were to take a chance on a current assistant who hasn’t been a head coach before like the Bulls did with Thibodeau, I’d be all for trying to get Ettore Messina off the Lakers bench now that he has some experience in the NBA.
Aykis16 - January 3, 2012
I'm gonna disagree the problem has been the pocket book
Good coaches know talent and the Kings had nothing to offer for years. With Reke and Cousins (if he can survive the season), I think a big name coach would interested in the job.
For now I think the players have to take their lumps. There are no quick fixes, but can grow and get better even when getting their head kicked in.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Respectfully disagree
These guys got outbid for Kurt Rambis (thank God!). The Kings have rented coaches on the cheap since 2006. The franchise is still barely above the minimum spending cap.
The tightwads need to open the wallet for both playing talent and coaching talent, but I don’t see it happening.
section214 - January 3, 2012
I was arguing they wouldn’t have landed a big name coach even if they backed up the beer distribution sale truck.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Right. Stan Van Gundy hoodwinked us not too long ago, for a superior roster
dampania - January 3, 2012
Even if they paid the coach...
in beer trucks?
They might need that much to deal with this.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
Considering the run of DUI’s, probably have been paying these coaches with a beer truck.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Rec'd, Sir.
Whole-heartedly agree. If you’re not going to spend on playing talent, then you better be willing to spend on coaching talent to bring the most out of your guys.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
Just wondering...
What U.S. coach do you think Messina is most like, in terms of basketball coaching?
Anyone in the Spurs organization you’d be interested in?
getPGwithbounce - January 4, 2012
at least we know our weaknesses.....
A complete 180 from about a week ago (I don’t blame you).
New coach, New Outlook…. Interim head coaches are low risk-low reward for now. I just hope the Maloofs open up their checkbooks for a coach who will let these guys know that the time is NOW!!!
IBleedPurpleandBlack - January 3, 2012 via iPhone app
so how long until paul is fired??
over/under 25 games?
Sacnutz - January 3, 2012
I'm going to say
Under.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
If we do fire westphal and get a new coach
I doubt it would help. With little practice time, how would a new coach be able to put in new offenses or defensive schemes
FTFeli - January 3, 2012 via mobile
The opportune time to do it is right after we get blown out by the Bucks on Thursday
Keith will have 2 days to work on the team before they start their massive road schedule
dampania - January 3, 2012
there is no offenses or defensive schemes
Jimmered. - January 3, 2012
Hey
At least they have shown up in matching jerseys
ElRonToro - January 3, 2012
At this point, we are one typo on our jerseys from being the Natinals
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
What we need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB_vcYPsXbY
feelgood - January 3, 2012
What I'm glad we dont have anymore
elSAVinator - January 3, 2012
At least he finished at the rim
We can’t even do that.
Aykis16 - January 4, 2012
Finished himself you mean?
rubenho - January 4, 2012
Why don't we all just go to the Kings Bucks game since we played so awesome!
How do they expect to sell tix.
2001nbachampions - January 3, 2012
Obviously
The Kings Dance team will be playing instead.
They can probably do just as well. Or better.
HarveySpecter - January 3, 2012
Katerina can be center.
Scott Section 213 - January 4, 2012
She's certainly draw a lot of attention...
Skeptical Dawg - January 4, 2012
ca(ra)mel's tow
DTG13 - January 4, 2012 via Android app
Am I the only one who think David Kahn has done way better than Geoff Petrie??
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Two picks, one coach
the rest garbage.
Yet it could be argued as better
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
I really don't see how the rest has been garbage
The Wolves have assembled a very good roster. Much more than just the 2 picks. Only mistake he made IMO was drafting Johnny Flynn. That made no sense. Even still, it all worked out fine.
Ninja King - January 3, 2012
Forgot about Derrick Williams
Not really impressed by Bease, Wesley, Ridnour, Darko, Tolliver, and others. Although yes sadly wouldn’t mind some of them on this team.
wallywagon11 - January 3, 2012
Actually the switching out of Ridnour/Barea and Rubio at the point
seems to be working well to switch up the style of play so that it keeps the defense constantly switching. Ridnour and Barea as point are more shoot first, and run a basic offense, then Rubio comes in and just runs all over the place and gets the entire team passing around. It’s very interesting to watch.
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
If the race ended at the 2nd leg
Considering neither team is no where near a finished product its probably not a productive argument.
Plus as I’ve had to mention a few times, Kahn didn’t hire Adelman and Adelman sure didn’t want Kahn to be around.
bignerd - January 3, 2012
Am I the only one that considers Eddie Jordan right now if Westphal is fired?
He was invited by the Spurs to their training camp but refused. He got a coaching gig at his alma mater (HS).
His offense is probably millions times better than Westphal because he implements principles of the Princeton offense. I think our offense will be fluid and more easy to watch. We have the pieces to make it happen. The reason why he got canned in Philly was that his offense was not a fit for that team.
Probably the only downside about Jordan was his rotations late in the fourth quarter iirc. i.e. played Etan Thomas over Brendan Haywood.
KF10 - January 3, 2012
i’ll take crappy rotations late in the fourth quarter over crappy rotations for four quarters.
Brannigan's Law - January 4, 2012
BobbleHand night in Memphis
Haven’t seen the Kings bobble so many rebounds and putbacks since Mikki Moore was on the squad.
On a positive note, I really enjoyed watching Isaiah and Jimmer in the fourth quarter. Too bad Westphal didn’t use this combination earlier in the game to put some wind in the Kings sails.
convoy - January 4, 2012
Anyone but Westphal...now
I truly believe just about anyone could coach better immediately. No one has ever been worse at rotating players…no wonder they are so confused. This 12-15 assists per game shit has got to go.
convoy - January 4, 2012
Yay free throw shooting!
getPGwithbounce - January 4, 2012
Yes! At least there is that!
MichaelMack - January 4, 2012
Today's game face?
Easy one. Bottom row, lower right.
Scott Section 213 - January 4, 2012
In other news
Whiteside had 13 points 9 rebounds 6 blocked shots. I know it’s the d league but I’m still impressed.
Da-King - January 4, 2012 via mobile
And only two fouls in 16 minutes.
I’m impressed as well. DLeague or not, I still have hope for the kid.
CoolFinity - January 4, 2012
That was in 16 minutes?
Jeez.
Aykis16 - January 4, 2012
chenp22 - January 4, 2012
3-9 fts!!!!! aaaahhhhhh
2001nbachampions - January 4, 2012 via iPhone app
Celtics called
Supposedly the celtics phoned us and offered Rondo for Cousins. Sure would have been happy to see this happen. I know we’re flooded with guards, but a true pg. Dreaming. By the way, I’ve seen some posts saying bring in an outside coach right now. Has this ever happened in NBA history? Maybe I’m lost but I don’t recall this ever happening. It would be an entirely new offense and defense(not as if we currently have either). Smart is our only hope for now. Wish I could sleep. Keep having nightmares of our transition defense.
HighSockWizard - January 4, 2012 via mobile
Can we get Doc for PW too?
chenp22 - January 4, 2012
Where did you hear the offered rondo for Cousins?
deadenddude - January 4, 2012
Bleacher report
HighSockWizard - January 4, 2012 via mobile
LOL
Using Bleacher Report as a source is like using Stevie Wonder as an interior decorator.
CaliforniaJag - January 4, 2012
interior decorator?
bignerd - January 4, 2012
You don't trade
Big for small. Don’t do it. I’d rather have Our team with Cousins and a few NaPGs (Ball movement can be coached) than Our team with Rondo and a bunch of NaCenters. You can’t give interior D, size and post moves to little guys.
killerking - January 4, 2012
All the problems being with the coach.
I’m all for firing PW, but not right now. If we fire him now it looks like it was because of the Cousins ordeal, which is going to send the wrong message to DMC. He needs to know he’s not in charge.
CoolFinity - January 4, 2012
Or
You hire somebody that makes him wish for the days of Westphal. That’ll teach him a lesson!
otis29 - January 4, 2012
If we fire Westphal now, I don't think it will show DMC he's in charge. It just shows that the organization agrees that PW isn't doing a good job and wants to give Smart an extended look.
I’m assuming it’s Smart.
Everyone knows PW is a lame-duck coach right now. Getting rid of him now would be more beneficial to see what we have in Keith Smart. I never liked the PW signing and his reputation proceeds him. He handled the DMC problem poorly.
I think DMC is mainly acting out because he wants to win. He wants to have a good structured system in place and I personally think he got frustrated with PWs system. I don’t think he’s acting out just because that’s who he is. I think he’s legitimately frustrated with all of the losing and the lack of good coaching. That said, I in no way agree with how DMC handled himself. Just saying his reasoning for his actions may be legit. He does need to be more professional. But it sounds like everyone on the team wants someone who can do the job.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
I think there's a lot of evidence that would suggest he's acting out because that IS who he is.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
What's the next draft going to be like?
I’m hearing it’s gonna be deep (or at least much deeper than recent drafts). If so, give the young core some more experience together (If that’s still possible), GP will probably pick another stud (no not spud, stud, in Petrie we trust…at least on draft day…knock on wood), if we wind up in that scenario (chances are good), then PW will be gone already, and hopefully better FA & Coaches available next round…
Or the flipside would be this season is still very young, given a bit more time to gel and iron at least some wrinkles (E.G. Free throw shooting), and take baby steps in the right direction, we pick up some momentum and win a few more games….
At this point I’d prefer 2nd scenario, but First point has upside to it too…
Slikk_J - January 4, 2012
Isaiah Thomas needs more minutes
And has been more impressive than Fredette in the time they both have played.
Toby93 - January 4, 2012
Dumbest post of the day
IT nice change of pace guy but gonna try to do too much and dribble thru 3 guys and bounce it off his foot….Fredette better passer/shooter and it’s not even close.
Pdidd - January 4, 2012
This was uncalled for.
ivan209 - January 4, 2012
would have read a lot better without the first sentence
wallywagon11 - January 4, 2012
Word.
ivan209 - January 4, 2012
He's actually technically correct
But Jimmer’s played almost three times the minutes as Isaiah. Hopefully, Westphal will be smart enough to get Isaiah on the court a bit more and see what he’s got.
otis29 - January 4, 2012
I agree. I personally like the idea of moving Jimmer and Garcia/Outlaw to the first unit and Thornton and Isaih to the second unit.
1st: PG: Jimmer, SG: Tyreke, SF: Garcia/Outlaw, PF: Hayes, C: DMC
2nd: PG: Thomas, SG: Thornton, SF: Salmons, PF: Hickson, C: JT
I think these two units work better together. Surround Tyreke with guards/forwards who don’t need the ball more than he does. Him and DMC can be the focal point of the offense with Jimmer, Garcia/Outlaw, and Hayes playing their roles of shooters and garbage workers.
When that first unit gets tired or goes stagnant, Thornton is the 6th man and provides instant offense. I realize Thornton is probably our best scorer, right now, but he’ll still get starter minutes off of the bench.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
IT and Thornton would give me headaches on the defensive end.
Sure they would score baskets, but would offer no point differential at all. I would say IT paired with Jimmer/Thornton is only good for 3-4 minute stretches.
Look at the 4th quarter last night. Jimmer and IT scored like crazy, yet the lead didnt get any smaller.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Yeah but can your headache really get any worse than it is right now?
I think we need to face the facts that our guards aren’t going to be premeir defenders. IT and Thornton can work well together offensively and if they push the ball more, than I think that can pay big dividends.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
Basically what I'm trying to say is we're not good offensively or defensively.
We have a better chance at improving our offense and I think this optimizes it better.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
I actually agree with your lineup
I was just saying that Having IT at 5’8" and Thornton at 6’2" in the back court for long periods of time would do more harm than good against most teams. I would have Thornton coming in for Jimmer as the first sub, and move Reke to the point.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Yeah, definitely agree.
And I still fail to see why we traded for Salmons and got Outlaw. I don’t see them as upgrades over Cisco. Seems like we took Cisco and made two clones of him.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
Outlaw was a guy we could get on the cheap and was supposed to be decent still..I think he really doesn’t wanna be here
Widowwolf - January 4, 2012
He got Outlaw because Kings couldnt wait for AK47 to make up his damn mind
In a normal off season we could have been patient.
Also, Outlaw was one of the lone bright spots against Memphis last night. Maybe he is rounding into the 20 min bench player we signed him for.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
I don't see wholesale switching of lineups ever happening
You might see Thornton and Jimmer before IT enters or IT and Tyreke. The actual minutes where Thornton and IT play together would probably be limited.
HighTops - January 4, 2012
I'm not so sure
If IT and Thorton are any worse a defensive duo than Tyreke and Jimmer at this point.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
I think Thornton will be best suited coming off of the bench...
He’ll still get his minutes but he’ll get it during a time where he isn’t competing with Tyreke. I would probably just move Jimmer to starting PG even if it is too early. This team is obviously going to finish with another top 5 pick in next year’s draft so why not develop Jimmer at the PG spot? It’ll expedite his learning curve and I think he has the mentality to handle the transition.
I also think the coaching has been terrible. The guys seem lost out there and whatever plays they’re running, they’re not running them well. It looks like the guys don’t know where there shots or options are and are never in a position to succeed. Keith Smart is suppose to be a defensive specialist…I wouldn’t mind seeing what we have out of him and giving him an extended look. We already now what PW brings…
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
Where did you hear Smart was a defensive specialist?
I was always under the impression he was more of an offensive minded coach. That could be from sitting behind Nelson though.
Iv’e read that part of the reason GS let Smart go was that they didn’t like the development they saw in Curry. I’m pretty sure that he Curry bumped heads a bit last year too. Just some things to keep in mind.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
Smart would bench Curry for not playing D
And Curry hated it.
Tisbee - January 4, 2012
Makes sense. Thanks.
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
Everyone looks like a defensive specialist sitting next to Don Nelson
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
Didn't read it anywhere...my cousins are die hard Warrior fans and have season tickets. I asked them to tell me about Smart and they said he was a defensive specialist...
said he looked like a good coach but the new GSW regime wanted “their guy” at head coach. Clean slate sort of thing.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
"Lacking fluid movement and basic floor spacing . . ."
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20000427&slug=4017773
Sigh.
blknblu - January 4, 2012
If I could rec this from my iPhone I would
This article was 10 years ago and it’s all the same horrible problems he’s created here as well. Does everyone not see a history of these issues? I want to block quote the whole article but I won’t. He’d created problems with most of his players in just one year… And that was written prior to Payton leaving Seattle because of Westphal. Arghg. It would be better to fire him right now for the sake of team chemistry and morale. Smart is a well-liked coach who improved the Warriors last year… The team would be ecstatic to loose this disaster Westphal.
mavisdory - January 4, 2012 via mobile
sigh
I miss Adelman.
Too bad we didn’t want to keep a coach who “couldn’t win the big game”
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
Yeah and too bad we're stuck with owners (and a GM?) whose basically the same.
That said, I’d say Adelman had a better shot at winning in general than our beloved owners.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
Going out on a short, solid limb here
Adelman was the best coach the Kings have ever had.
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
You mean to tell me PW, Theus, Natt, and Musselman weren't any good? LOL
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
How about before too?
Eddie Jordan
Garry St. Jean
Rex Hughes
Dick Motta
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
LOL
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
It looks like Westphal hasn't changed much in the last 11 years
If I’m not mistake, didn’t he use this same comment from that story last season?
HighTops - January 4, 2012
But I agree with him
I could see Pop or Jackson or Sloan or Karl saying the same type of thing. The missing ingredient is that Westphal doesn’t have the coaching chops that those other guys have.
section214 - January 4, 2012
I just dont think PW is putting the players in a position to win games yet this season.
And that is his lone job really.
I’m not on the bandwagon to get rid of him yet though. I still think the lockout gives him some breathing room to turn this around. I say all star break, then if things dont look better, can him.
Wonderchild - January 4, 2012
folsomfella - January 4, 2012
Per rotoworld.com:
http://rotoworld.com/articles/nba/39621/45/dose-to-sell-or-not-to-sell?pg=2
Scroll down to “Cowbell Conundrum”…although this is a fantasy BBall site, I totally agree with this idea.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
Good read
sj60615 - January 4, 2012
Yeah, don't mean to be such a bandwagoner but that's what I think is best.
I know I’m not alone as a lot of my friends feel the same way.
I mean really? Tyreke, Salmons, Thornton, and DMC in the same lineup? They need to switch it up because their style of play doesn’t compliment each other.
Sactown_Loyalty19 - January 4, 2012
I agree 100%
From day one I questioned the structure of the lineup.
In my opinion Hayes is not a starting big. He may be a good leader, a great guy, etc but I do not see him as an answer in a starting lineup. Let him be the leader, let him come off the bench and punish the young guys of the opposition or let him play matchups (maybe he starts at C against a small front line) Tyreke, Salmons and Thornton both need the ball to score.
I would prefer to see Jimmer (although he has to stop picking up his dribble!) alongside Tyreke with maybe Garcia or Donte (if they tell him no threes allowed!) and then Hickson and Cousins up front.
Let Isiaah, Thornton, Salmons, Hayes and JT come off the bench.
WebberDynasty - January 4, 2012
Problem is
Salmons will not play off the bench
polotown - January 4, 2012
Time for some Salmnesty
TheFifthMookie - January 4, 2012
LOL great so we will be on the hook for 15 million, because honestly the best i see any team bidding is 3 years at 3 million a year..No we would be back to Outlaw, Donte and Francisco..Welcome to a step back of last year
Widowwolf - January 4, 2012
That could be true.
But I would still test it. If he opts to object then so be it. He can be replaced with Outlaw, Garcia, or Donte.
I guess my point is just that they have to find which guys play well with eachother. To be honest I dont care if the roles are reversed as it doesnt matter to me who “starts”.
I just think Tyreke could help hide Jimmer’s defensive deficiency and get D’s to collapse and thus open up the perimeter a bit. Reke could run the break while Jimmer runs the set pieces. Cousins and Hickson could pair well down low with Hickson’s athleticism pairing with DMC’s skill.
Salmons could help hide Thornton’s defensive deficiencies. Hayes and JT would do dirty work underneath while Thornton, Isiaah and Salmons dominate the ball.
Maybe Im just throwing darts at this point!
WebberDynasty - January 4, 2012
I don't think he can be any worse than he is starting
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
He was significantly worse coming off the bench the last time we had him;
made KT look like a good bench player. Maybe his attitude has changed, but I doubt it.
polotown - January 4, 2012
But last time he was passable as a starter
now he is just terrible and it wouldn’t hurt if he didn’t play at all
prowseinthehouse - January 4, 2012
*sigh* Unfortunately true
polotown - January 4, 2012
Hire Bruski...!!!
Sacto_J - January 4, 2012
I'm on the wagon and have always been a supporter
I’ve always hoped PW would imitate RA’s success. Not happening.
What type of offense does Smart enforce?
mrosado - January 4, 2012
I think last year he stuck with Don Nelson's run and gun style
Crocoduck - January 4, 2012
I wouldnt be opposed to a change from Westphal but only if they have a solution lined up.
Don’t get me wrong though I dont put this all on PW. In fact I strongly I disagree with those who make PW too big of an issue as this simply isn’t a great team anyhow. Should he have them more competitive? Sure! But to expect much better than .350 or even .400 basketball is insane. I mean your best player is probably not a top 15 at his alleged PG position, your SG is possibly a top 15 SG since the position is weak but he has serious limitations too, your SF and PF are not starters on any decent team and I would hesitate to even call them top 25 in the league, and your Center is probably a top 15 but is young and immature causing as many problems as he does offer solutions.
Bottom line in my opinion is they have a bunch of OK parts which must be maximized to be competetive. I would like to see someone come in and find ways to match the parts to get the most out of them. Whether it’s Westphal (not likely since everyone goes nuts if he plays with a lineup change) or another coach someone needs to find the best way to maximize the limited talents.
WebberDynasty - January 4, 2012
i was clamoring for westphal to be fired midseason last year
and got a ton of “how are we going to improve with some interim coach, wait till the end of the year” responses
well, look who’s back
groundhog day
fire his ass. i don’t care who replaces him. I’ll say what i said last year. IT CANT GET WORSE
lchristmas - January 4, 2012
I understand the feeling
But I personally still just dont feel anything will change (in terms of general attitude) unless it is a respected coach. I also feel 5 games is too soon. In my mind I see it as they are on par with last year at this point in terms of record with their three best players struggling. I am hopeful the slumps break and are a contributing factor. If after five more games they are still playing non-competitive basketball than I am ok I guess with change for the sake of change.
WebberDynasty - January 4, 2012
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