Sactown Royalty

Good game, would dearly have loved the W.

Reke and Cousins played like superstars tonight.

I did find Walton’s incessant talking very annoying, but I might be the only who felt this way.

Slam_Dunk - January 8, 2012 reply

No...

He was very annoying.

Drew Q - January 8, 2012 reply

The look on Grant's face

When Walton said to him “I’m just jealous of your red hair” was enough, for me, to make up for Walton’s half-addled commentary tonight.

courtsurveyor - January 8, 2012 reply

absolute

true lol when that happened

+1

Charles L. Pierro - January 8, 2012 reply

No, you’re not. I’ll take Peach’s commentary any day of the week over Walton’s. Walton annoys the living shit out of me.

irritating as always

not every play requires commentary Billy.

He's terrible

I don’t get the appeal. And everyone who says he throws out some brilliant stuff from time to time? Well, I guess you talk THAT MUCH and something coherent will eventually spew forth.

My Fiance...

Has never watched a kings game before in her life, and she said during the game, “I don’t know who that guy [Bill Walton] talking is, but I don’t like him. He’s dumb and his voice is annoying.” Yes sweetheart, welcome to the family." We also went to a Jazz game last week and she said, “Wow, that number 35 on the hornets [Chris Kaman] Is really ugly. Maybe that’s why the Jazz keep missing their shots when he’s on the floor.”

killerking - January 9, 2012 reply

Walton

never shuts up, its unbelievable. The only thing I can appreciate about him is that I think he mirrors the sentiments shared by much of the media in regards to our players, so you don’t get the “homer” takes that Jer and Grant spoon feed us. That and he really does stand behind his opinions. That being said, 2 quarters of the guy is too much. And every time they cut to Jim Grey, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. Urrrrgh. I mean, one of his recent post game interviews (you know, one of his responsibilities for Maloof Sports and Entertainment,) was with a player from the other team. WTF, Jim~!? I really don’t care what ANY player on the other team has to say. Or you, for that matter. I could deal with one or the other, but the 2 of them together are too much…

prowseinthehouse - January 9, 2012 reply

Last year when the l*kers beat us

he interviewed Kobe asking him why it was so cool beating the Kings. I hate Jim Grey, everything about him, especially when you look at who he replaced and why

Please refresh my memory as to who he replaced ;)

Shizzo - January 9, 2012 reply

I, also, need a refresher on this one

preferably in a visual format

TheFifthMookie - January 9, 2012 reply

Here you go

I saw she now works for Phoenix's broadcast team

mattrick - January 10, 2012 reply

correct

pretty sure it was Katie Christianson(spelling?)...

not sure why she was replaced… but she was kinda hot…. very tall!!!

Get Jimmered - January 9, 2012 reply

Fatigue

but had trouble executing down the stretch

I believe the cause for this was fatigue. We weren’t closing out on shooters, getting back in transition defense and reverted to 1v1. Those are things we had been doing all game. But for the last 3 minutes our starting guard line looked very tired.

BurningFeathers - January 8, 2012 reply

They did play a bunch of minutes

Smart keeps a tight rotation, and our guys will have to be in better shape to play the way he wants them to, that’s for sure.

Aykis16 - January 8, 2012 reply

I also think it was a result of the team playing with so much energy to start the game. They’re pumped with the new coach and haven’t settled into pacing themselves just yet. But they will.

TheJust - January 8, 2012 reply

Two days off, shouldn't have been tired.

But I also thik no one should be scaring 40 minutes this season

Looking better, but..........

Much better effort Smart makes it look obvious how bad Westphal really was. Dinner w Cousins, etc.

But, this team needs a PG so bad it’s disgusting. I do not understand how the hell Petrie didn’t/hasn’t get one. Same for small forward. Gross. Salmons isn’t hitting anything, and I’m sick of Donte and Garcia. Miss every three.

amonk81 - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

You think that point guard play cost us the game tonight?

I respectfully disagree.

section214 - January 8, 2012 reply

No. I was just griping about the lack of PG in general. Think Tyreke is the best they have for now.

amonk81 - January 8, 2012 reply

I'll take 28 points and 8 assists out of my point guard

Any day of the week.

HeuristicLineup - January 9, 2012 reply

What if those 8 is almost all the assists the team gets though?

That's not on the PG is it?

This.

I never said that point guard cost Kings the game.

So, you get on my case for saying something I didn’t say (that PG cost Kings game) and everyone piles on.

amonk81 - January 9, 2012 reply

Not getting on your case

Within the confines of a game recap you make the comment that the team needs a point guard. Within that context, it can sound as though you felt that point guard play was a weak point in this game, to which I respectfully disagreed. And apparently within that context, others agreed.

If you are talking in the broader sense of this team’s needs, I would agree that the Kings at this point lack a player on their roster at any position that is gifted at making their teammates better, and that historically you look for a point guard to fill that role. Unless Evans takes a quantum leap forward under Smart, the Kings may need to look into obtaining someone else to fill the PG role.

I am officially a semi-moron

Forgot I was posting in the game recap. My growing hatred for Paul Westphal’s coaching (or lack thereof) has altered my brain capacities.

amonk81 - January 9, 2012 reply

You can't be a semi-moron

I’ve never seen you at any of the meetings.

And Section isn’t only the semi-moron president, he’s also a member

Went to flag it, wound up rec'ing it

Enrollment confirmed.

section214 - January 10, 2012 reply

LOL- but the real questions is when do i get my membership card

prowseinthehouse - January 10, 2012 reply

You don't get cards

Just helmets

Completely Agree

There is no question we need a veteran point guard. We need someone to help get these young guys in line when they start “forgetting” the play calls – especially towards the end of the game – don’t think its a matter of fatigue so much as confidence down the stretch.

Sure, we ran the ball a lot tonight on fast breaks, but most of those were unassisted drives to the hoop. We can’t keep getting more turnovers than assists if we want to win games. Jimmer looks lost out there often, IT doesn’t quite have it together, and Tyreke too often tries to finish at the rim when he should be kicking the ball back out. This was especially evident during the last two minutes when he tried to finish a layup circus-style with his back to the basket.

I wouldn’t be suprised at all if Petrie makes a trade for a veteran point guard some time in the next few weeks. Need a little less flamboyance, and a little more structure.

convoy - January 8, 2012 reply

I'm completely in the opposite camp

There aren’t any play makers out there to get more involved. The team has three good scorers in Evans, Cousins and MT23 who are all inconsistent at this point of their career. Jimmer, JT and Hickson add some buckets in the context of the offense but aren’t being under used. The rest of the roster is a complete waste on the offensive end and aren’t adding much in the other areas. Its really the pieces around the Big 3 that aren’t holding up. Unless all three are having a good game the rest of the roster isn’t good enough to make up the difference.

yeah on the offensive side of the ball I think outside of the big three

all you really have are Jimmer, JJ, and JT. I still think more spacing and better ball movement out of Jimmer and Reke (personally I have little faith in Thornton) could go along way to making it better for all 6.

Ok but you've named 6 of the 8 man rotation

well yeah

I think better ball movement can make it better for all 6. Not saying all of them should be scoring double digits each game though

Ramon Sessions

On the topic of PGs

Rubio had 14 assists today. Good god.

HarveySpecter - January 8, 2012 reply

That said,

I think errors we should expect to see in a young team, as well as some execution that was lacking, lost us the game. Still not a loss to be sore about though. I see much improvement over the team from a couple days ago. Actually looking forward to the progress we can make this season.

HarveySpecter - January 8, 2012 reply

Hey TZ

How about Jamal Crawford?

Okay joking aside, enjoyable game

Wish to see more of Jimmer and Reke together at the same time but dear lord the way both get absolutely destroyed on the pick and roll I can’t see them working out defensively too good together at this point.

Cousins can be the greatest and worst player on the floor at the same time (his defense went from awesome to horrible at any given moment back to awesome). There was no reason for Big Baby doing what he did out there.

Our small forwards behind Salmons are playing really bad. Like, Salmons can play 34 minutes a night and I won’t even complain much bad.

Reke was awesome. I know he got 8 assists but there were still times he should have dished and it would have been fairly easy for him too.

Loved what we saw from Jimmer in the first half.

Work in progress. Overall enjoyable game. Forget the loss and just focus on what’s ahead possession by possession.

Salmons hasn't been good either

But yeah, the guys behind him have managed to even be worse.

Aykis16 - January 8, 2012 reply

yeah that was kind of the point of mentioning Salmons minutes

the fact I am even remotely kind of okay with that isn’t great

although it was 39 tonight

Very small sample size though

Garcia has played 43 minutes and Donte has played 27 all season.

absolutely

I’ll also say technically it’s a small sample size for everyone still

Sure

I still say that Garcia should get a lot more burn. His numbers last year (at least offensively) were better than Salmons, and he’s a fiery guy.

But it’s probably not going to happen since the franchise needs to try to save face on the Salmons deal.

yeah would agree about Garcia needing to play more

Almost got em, almost.

LOL

Been there!

that fish almost slit his throat

Never thought of that ….thinking about that for a second.

some fish are sharp motherfuckers

Salmons

nbrans - January 8, 2012 reply

and others are not.

Tr.Out

diehardkingsfan5 - January 9, 2012 reply

If you could’ve photoshopped Salmons face on the salmon, this would be rivaling the Simpsons’ one up top.

Nah,

Salmons has never showed moves like that.

what if someone somehow added him dribbling a basketball at the same time?

Ha!

Perfect

...and that is how the Shake-Weight was invented?

markdog333 - January 9, 2012 reply

Crunch Time

Would rather see us put our five best players on the court at the end of the game and live with the results. To me that is Evans, Thornton, Cousins, Salmons and Jimmer. Yep, small ball.

That’s basically how we closed the Bucks game, except with JT instead of the fouled-out Cousins.

Ideally however Orlando had some size.

I am of the thinking Jimmer has been getting too many minutes

for his current level of play

PT is basically coming down Jimmer or Salmons/Outlaw.

No doubt Jimmer is looking for a role

It would help if they would pass him or anybody else the ball. The iso, one-guy-touches-the-ball trips down the floor generally kill us. Passing leads to better shots, and Jimmer is one of our better (and more willing) passers.

I was surprised when he jacked up a 35-footer midway through the fourth quarter, but I think it was frustration from not getting the touches. I don’t think he played much after that shot.

We miss him a lot on spot up opportunities

Although he hasn’t been shooting the ball all that well so far this year. He’s a good shooter though, and a rookie, so I’m not too worried about it (the shooting that is).

Aykis16 - January 8, 2012 reply

Agreed

I bet we see more plays installed where he’s moving to spot up positions a la Ray Allen. Or at least that’s what I hope we see since Tyreke attracts so much attention when he drives and Cousins in going to eventually start commanding double-teams.

TheJust - January 8, 2012 reply

Still plenty of problems getting the shooters the ball

On time. Usually a second (or sometimes 3) too late.

dribble and repeat

I

failed to reply properly :-/

I’ve noticed that teams respect Jimmer’s shot like no other rookie and few other current NBA players. Defenders give him 0 space on the floor and constantly crowd him whether he has the ball or not. I think that has been the biggest factor in him not having more effect on the offensive end, that he’s having to work much harder to get open and have decent looks in the NBA, and to his credit, he’s not just jacking up shots all that often, he’s trying to play smart. I think he’ll eventually learn how to get himself a little more space and the team will learn when and where to hit him.

disagree

don’t think you should play jimmer less than what he played tonight.he only played 13 minutes.He’s a rookie and needs reasonable amount of time to learn. Some people were surprised he launched that long three in the fourth but he did that a lot in college. Other than that shot I think he did pretty good.you can tell he’s a willing distributor and should have had about six assists if his teammates could have finished at the hop.Plus he only shot three times tonight so his shooting tonight is hard to judge.

mmarcum - January 8, 2012 reply

one other thing

jimmer needs to break that bad habit of forcing the pass while in the air

mmarcum - January 8, 2012 reply

Amen to the jumping in the air for no apparent reason habit

I was more talking about the 24 minutes he’s been averaging with bad stats and horrible defense rather than the 13 tonight. I do realize that it can be easily argued the guys behind him or no better (I think him and IT are about a draw at the 1 but when Jimmer is at the 2 I think Cisco is better currently (although not for the long haul big picture thing)).

ya

I definitely agree!

mmarcum - January 8, 2012 reply

Agreed

And less than 3 minutes in the second half.

I thought he did an excellent job running the offense in the first half. He would generally beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane. Whereas in earlier games he would force up a runner, in this case he was doing a great job of kicking out and getting guys open looks.

He didn’t play in the third period and it’s probably better if he comes in with 3-4 minutes left in the period.

I think they subbed out for him because he was covering Richardson, an obvious mismatch. Ironically, on the next possession, Tyreke lost Richardson on the three line and he nailed it, starting that segment where they hit three 3s in crunch time.

NewEraKings - January 9, 2012 reply

One day Demarcus will learn stop getting petty reaching fouls, one day!!

I swear if he could ever stay out of foul trouble the Kings would be verrry hard to beat night in and night out. Jimmer looked totally lost tonight. Perk up Kings, the Sixers play good defense and get up and down the court. Maybe we can catch em on a bad day.

JT looks like he finally learned that lesson.

Year 4?

Jimmer looked lost?

What game were you watching? Played fine defense, and set people up at the rim constantly. Not his fault they won’t pass it to him when he is wide open.

DWeissbart - January 8, 2012 reply

If they are playing hard and listening to the coach the wins will follow.

I like what I saw tonight. Actually I’m kind of excited about what I saw tonight.

polotown - January 8, 2012 reply

Jim Gray has to go, I'm sorry but he ruins any joy that can be found out of a halftime show.

Why does he work for the Kings, it’s a real head scratcher to be honest.

I could live with Jim Gray

But Walton absolutely needs to go.

dampania - January 8, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Uh, Walton needs to shut his yap.

He’s insightful sometimes but he just is always rambling. It also seemed like he was down on the Kings after every bad play they made, and then Grant would point out the good things and he’d change his tone for a few seconds and then just go back to how bad the Kings are, lol. Ass.

I love Jerry

But I can handle Walton a few times a year. He rambles a ton of non-sense and that is probably not exaggerating it enough. He does have 4-6 excellent observations per broadcast. Plus a little change of voice and/or perspective isn’t that bad.

I could almost handle Walton when they rotated him in for 2 quarters, but for the whole game is annoying

And I actually didn’t mind him as a national color analyst, especially alongside Snapper Jones, but for the home broadcast…

Putting his incessant off-topic rambling aside. While I appreciate some objectivity, with Walton its like having an opposing teams color analyst come on to taunt us, raving about their team, and disparaging ours. The games he does versus the Lakers, ugh

dampania - January 8, 2012 reply

You are right about Walton seeming like he is the opposing team's analyst. He gives a little too much

praise for the other team.

I kind of like that he doesn't kiss the player's asses like Peaches does...

He does ramble on a lot though…

Wonderchild - January 8, 2012 reply

Jim Gray and Bill Walton are my two least favorite sportscasters

…and it’s not even close.

BurningFeathers - January 8, 2012 reply

Bill Walton is not Jerry

I hate Jim Gray more than Walton

at least walton is funny in the aging stoner kind of way

he always has to mention grants advertising bits

grant “brought to you by Jack-in-the-box”

Walton “i love jack-in-the-box!”

remember when he said

“the kings need to play more like the grateful dead”

LOL

one can only assume what he meant by that

mtmoore55 - January 9, 2012 reply

Man I love Walton...

Gray is a douche. Bet the radio broadcast was fantastic with G-Man and Jerry.

Sacramental - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

An eargasm of basketball imagery and knowledge.

Wish I wasn’t out of town.

Smills9133 - January 8, 2012 reply

Crap

That’s what I should have done instead of flipping between Football Purdue and the Kings

Its seems this team wins and losses with Thorton and his shooting

probly true

he hits big shots whenever we win….

We need to drop Salmons...

He’s a bag of hot trash. If we could trade him great, if not, bench him and amnesty him come June, ugh.

Smills9133 - January 8, 2012 reply

And yet he is our best SF

And that is the crime of it all.

Hit the gym, young Tyler Honeycutt. Your team needs you.

section214 - January 8, 2012 reply

+1

And that is the crime of it all.

I am still hoping he will improve his game as the year wears on.

Man, when I see Outlaw drive to the hoop (once every third game) I can see why the Nets were so frustrated by him. He’s got great athleticism and length but the mo-fo camps out at the 3-point line all day. Throw it down big man! A driving SF would be lovely when Marcus and Jimmer are on the floor.

TheJust - January 8, 2012 reply

I disagree..i think when we run XXX, Thornon and Tyreke, Tyreke becomes Kings best SF

Widowwolf - January 9, 2012 reply

I'm really not so sure about that

Me either

Honeycut could easily just be young Cisco, not that I’m writing his career path just yet.

This

I liked him after the lakers game....

but he’s been quite terrible… but some part of me i cant explain likes him more than most… his moves look cool, i like the way he dribbles and shoots, beautiful form…. but um, lol

goddamn i gotta take it easy

on all the dot-dot-dot’s , i “…” for every punctuation mark, must be annoying to read sometimes

It burns my retinas...

you seriously think Greene and Garcia were playing better?

How can you tell in such limited minutes?

Can't

but unless one of them has made a career jump we haven’t seen, or lost a step the historical ratings would be Salmons, Cisco, Greene (I am not sure where Outlaw would fit and am too lazy to check, probably at Cisco + or – 1.

Based on recent history

I think it should be Cisco, Salmons, Outlaw, Greene…

That would be my preferred order

su a +1 for you

Overall a much improved effort in this game.

I thought we really had the Magic on the ropes after both Howard and Hedo were sent to the pine in the 1st qtr with 2 fouls each. Unfortunately Big Baby, Richardson and Ryan picked up the slack.

We were right there with the Magic until about 5 minutes to go in the 4th. Too much ball handling and ill-advised shots by Tyreke and not enough team play and ball movement.

SayWhat? - January 8, 2012 reply

Yes, that no-look prayer shot kind of capsulized it

Does someone have a video of this? Pretty sure this was a team breakdown and not Evans' fault.

It was definitely a team breakdown, but I don't think that's what others are angry about.

Just that once the breakdown happens, and there’s 5 secs left on the block, Reke is locked in looking for his own shot only.

*clock

This one really felt different to me

We are used to the one flat four with Evans up top dribbling the clock down and then penetrating 1 on 3 and looking for his own shot.

I want to see the replay, because my recollection of the play in question was that Evans and Cousins were running a two man game up top. The other three players on the opposite side of the court stayed stationary. The two man game produced nothing and then Evans was stuck in the far corner with ~5-7 seconds left on the clock. He drove. No one else moved and he put up the fancy shot.

The play was a failure. A young team not running the same plays with the same off ball movement as earlier in the game. However, I just cringe when people use it as an example of Evans being selfish. If he neglects to make a good pass so he can force up a shot, that’s selfish. If not one else moves and he’s forced to put up a circus shot with the clock running down, that’s a team failure. Hopefully one that gets corrected with more coaching. It’s not selfish though. Evans can’t magically will his teammates to cut, screen and get open.

You're right, the off ball movement was non-existant.

Reke’s choices were force up a bad shot or commit a turnover. So I can’t fault him for getting a make-able difficult layup.

Shizzo - January 9, 2012 reply

Agree

SPTSJUNKIE - January 10, 2012 reply

Not selfish until crunch time

And “selfish” is really not the right word. I also watched the replay and saw Tyreke play some great point guard in the second half, really getting his teammates involved and running the offense, until the end of the game. Then it became more one-on-one, I have to be the savior. He did make some great plays while doing that, though.

NewEraKings - January 9, 2012 reply

Oddly, I don'

Don't have the same gripe at the end. I thought it was tale of two halves

First half was “get my own shot” Evans and he only had 1 assist. I was disappointed, although he scored well.

Second half, he got his teammates involved and had 7 assists.

Last two minutes the plays I remember were (anyone else please fill in gap, but online stream did cut out for one play where we lost the ball):

1 – Evans drove and when doubled dished to a wide open Hickson. Hickson made a great second pass to an open Thornton, who drilled a three.

2 – Thornton & Cousins did pick and roll. Double came and Thornton dished to Evans who missed a wide open three pointer. Not the shot we want, but open. Would have preferred Evans was doing the pick and roll with Cousins cause then Thronton would have been the one open for the three again.

3 – Evans circus shot we’ve discussed as nauseum.

4 – Evans alley oop to Hickson

Basically I am counting an assist, a hockey assist, a missed open shot in the flow of the offense and one debatable play.

I think Tyreke held back after the half because of the foot injury

When he came back at the end of last season from his foot treatment, he had some good assist games then too.

Good observation

No, Salmons was open in the corner

and there was room to pass it to him. I know Salmons had missed all his 3s but you still need to trust and make that pass.

Maybe. I want to see the play

Again I mean. Only saw it in real time.

DVR

Yeah, I was watching online. But people post highlights here all the time.

I would imagine someone should be able to post a clip of this play.

Yep, lost in the last 5 minutes. They played like a young, inexperienced team, took themselves out of the game.

plus MT could barely move

I want to see Honeycutt after Salmons

No more Outlaw/Cisco/Greene please

Hey how about going after Jeff Green after he gets healthy? He will be an unrestricted free agent.

Allbenji - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

makes me wonder a little bit

if Kirilenko would have been doing good at that spot, alot of people were somewhat high on him… and he probly wouldnt have played the 4 spot alot for us

although i never liked him

so i dont know why i would even bring that up

Still have a lot of the same problems with AK47

Doesn’t change the fact the team can’t hit open shots to keep the offense rolling. Different defensive matchup but that is all Salmons is bringing to this team right now, defense at times.

If they had resigned Dally and landed AK47 this would be a potential playoff team

Ya, I know despite offering money didn’t come close to signing either.

The squad at least would a good defensive team. They would shut out other teams for blocks of time to make up for their own offensive droughts. Instead the Hayes/Salmons/Outlaw combo is providing almost zero offense and marginal defense. Aren’t getting a thing back on these investments. Still two giant holes in the lineup.

AK47 yes. Have you seen Dally in Houston?

Very out of shape. Can’t even play 15 a night. Looks bad and they need him. Somewhere Morey is weeping.

yeah I've seen him twice now and looks pretty bad so far

I remember even Barkley said he looked bloated.

Wonderchild - January 8, 2012 reply

Bloated

A precautionary word to saying “fat”.

Nope, have not seen him

Was assuming it was close to the same Dally as last season.

AK47

It would be great to HAve AK on this team as he could pla both 3-4

want2win - January 9, 2012 reply

^have, play

want2win - January 9, 2012 reply

Agreed.

At first it obviously made for Tyler to play behind Cisco, Travis and Donte but they’re all under-performing so badly that I think it warrants giving Honeycutt a try. And while John is and has been playing better than the other 3 if he doesn’t start playing at a consistent and starter level I wouldn’t be against letting Tyler start altogether but of course we’ll need to see how he does with regular bench minutes first. Ultimately though at the end of the year I want Honeycutt to be the only 3 left. Kill this damn sorry-ass Hydra already

SoCal Diplomat - January 8, 2012 reply

Honeycutt's not strong enough yet

You could see in the preseason games that he needs to add strength.

It’s easier for rookie guards like Fredette and Thomas to come in with bodies that are closer to NBA-ready. But there is no way that Honeycutt can take on the likes of the small forwards that we have already seen this season. Not that our current rotation of SF’s is doing that great. But the kid needs time to develop an NBA body.

section214 - January 8, 2012 reply

given he is a young unknown

people are going to want to think the best of him and therefore would rather seem him then known qualities of suck

So Jeff Green then?

Allbenji - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

yeah because I heard that guy really wants to have a heart attack really really badly

maybe he can have his heart surgery while at center court too while we are at it

Yea, he has a nice feel for the game, but lacks the physical means to hang with others at this point.

Very interesting idea...but not when committing so much money to Salmons, Outlaw, Garcia etc.

That shouldn't be a reason

Although it probably will be the reason because we have broke owners. Salmons does nothing for us starting. He damn sure isn’t going to do anything pouting on the bench. Amnesty his ass after the season.

Allbenji - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Yup, shouldn't be the reason. But it will be and we all know it.

Honeycutt is playing craps at the Peppermill though.

He's playing craps in the games too

only getting 16 mpg in the D-league. Shooting 30% from the FT Line, 25% from beyond the arc, and just under 33% from the field.

It's OK, they have Whiteside

Isn't the Kings documentary coming out tomorrow?

rcervantes5 - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Yes it is

I’ll be there

Allbenji - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Me too...

Gonna grab a tasty adult beverage at Pyramid ale house before hand. Mmmm, Thunderhead IPA’s…

Where can we see it?

PurpleLoco - January 8, 2012 reply

The crest theatre 7pm

Allbenji - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Awesome, I'll see if I can make it.

PurpleLoco - January 8, 2012 reply

There's a fanpost in the rec section, print your tix from the link

The Fox station talked about the doc this morning.

I was hoping we would be a better 3 point shooting team with

a Thornton/Jimmer combination this year. Hopefully it will get better.

I agree

I thought with Thornton Jimmer along with Salmons and Cisco (both decent career 3 pt shooters) that we could spread the floor better. It looks a little better spread with Smart, lets hope it looks good within 10 games or so.

bringbackbuddytrees - January 8, 2012 reply

I just wish MT23 would teach Jimmer and Reke

his floater/runner in the lane. Jimmer doesn’t seem to be able to finish at the rim and Reke has no inbetween game. If they could make a floater in the lane consistently, they’d be much bigger scoring threats.

Evans needs that 15-17 footer guys like Rose bury consistently to reach his full potential.

Will open up the lane ,ore if defenders know he can stopnand bury the elbow shot.

Should have learned the Draino from Beno and he'd be an all-star.

Lol

He would be the greatest player ever!

No, he needs a 10-12 footer

a floater or a stop and pop.

I'll take both

All-Star

Hey Wall-ton. Hey Wall-ton!

HarveySpecter - January 8, 2012 reply

Interesting editing

Its almost good enough to be real but its bad enough to make me believe our own military propaganda machine put this out.

Gotta give this to Orlando's supporting cast for winning this one...

Kings took D12 out of the game, and they still beat us.

A couple things to take away:

1 ) Saw a lot of good things out of DMC today. He owned up to all of his mistakes, even his cheap reaching fouls. Also did not shy away from the big matchup going against Howard.

2 ) 4th quarter everyone was stagnant except Tyreke. I dont mind the 1-4 flat when Tyreke is hot, but guys still need to move around.

3 ) Thornton needs to do things to keep himself in the game when his shot is not falling. He has looked completely lost out there after missing his first few shots in the 1st half.

4 ) I think Jimmer needs to come in as an off guard early in the game to ease him into the game. He has been going in for Tyreke, and having to do all the ball handling. He should come in for Thornton, get a couple open shots with Tyreke in the game first.

Wonderchild - January 8, 2012 reply

I 2nd

the 4th

ThomasGQ - January 8, 2012 via iPhone app reply

I'm the 2nd to 3rd the 4th

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2011/12/30/2670779/small-market-big-heart-its-show-time

Aren't you the 2nd to 2nd the 4th?

So I’m the 3rd to 2nd the 4th.

Shizzo - January 9, 2012 reply

I got 2 tix to sold-out premiere of Small Market, Big Heart at the Crest Monday night

Can’t make it. Send me an email, and I will email you back the PDF tix.

CowpokePassion - January 8, 2012 reply

more info

CowpokePassion - January 8, 2012 reply

one more time

CowpokePassion - January 8, 2012 reply

A couple observations

I can’t say that it wouldn’t help but I kind of disagree with

The ball movement also seems much better, and while we only had 16 assists, a lot of that was due to guys just flat out missing their open shots, particularly from three.

We shot 10% better from the field than Orlando and scored more FG’s on fewer attempts yet they had 24 assists and we had 16. So, yeah, if we made more baskets we might have more assists but we shot 52% from the field. How often are we going to shot better than that. If we’re not getting assists when we’re shooting 52% and making 38 baskets, the problem isn’t that we need to hit more open shots, it’s that we need less 1 on 3 basketball and more team basketball.

I also have to disagree about your comment regarding Thornton,

He only shot 5 of 16 from the field, had no assists, didn’t get to the line, and fouled out. It’s hard to win when your best scorer is having a bad night.

I’ll probably get a lot of arguement on this one but Thornton may be our highest scorer, not our Best Scorer. He’s made 28 of 54 shots for 51.9% in our 3 wins, but he’s only made 33 of 88 shots for 37.5% in our 5 losses. That an average of 18 FGA’s in the wins and 17.6 FGA’s in our losses. He doesn’t get to the FT line all that often and while he’s a decent 3pt shooter at 37% it’s not enough to help his PPP rate of 0.85 points per shot. I don’t mind him putting up an open shot, but too often his shots are contested or not within the flow of the offense.

I agree with the fact that we’re still playing too much one on one baskets ball especially Salmons. And, I wish that the guards would stop giving up the ball to DeMarcus and JJ when they’re 20 ft from the basket, what usually ends up happening is an offensive foul, turnover or contested bad shot.

I agree that 16 is too many turnovers, but I’m more concerned with our Defensive Rebounding. We went from 16th last season with Dalembert to dead last so far this season. Were giving up too many 2nd chance points and it’s hurting our ability to get out and run.

It was a good effort by the Kings and an enjoyable game. Another loss to one of last years playoff teams, with out their best play even if it was only for most of the game. If it weren’t for Howards foul trouble, I doubt it would have been that close. And, until we get better perimeter defense and ball movement out of the guards, we’re going to have to shot in the 50% range to stay in games.

A good take as usual

stop giving up the ball to DeMarcus and JJ when they’re 20 ft from the basket, what usually ends up happening is an offensive foul, turnover or contested bad shot.

That’s OK if you’re truly running a high post. But the whole point of the high post is the rest of team moving off the ball, opening up passing lanes, drawing people in and out of the paint etc.

So it doesn’t work if the rest of team doesn’t move properly and just leave a big guy with the ball in hands wondering what to do. The result is too often what you just said or (you forgot) a handoff to a guard for a little mo’ dribbling late in the shot clock.

I just don’t understand why there is so much standing without the ball. How about some screens and cuts? Tyreke especially should cut to the basket without the ball.

Agreed

Tyreke especially should cut to the basket without the ball.

I think that this may be a more important developmental need to his game than even his jump shot. He just doesn’t seem to know what to do when he doesn’t have the ball, and with his speed, strength and length he should be making a living off of back cuts.

Yes, the moment the ball gets to a big in the high post

The very moment, there should be a set of screens and cuts from everyone else.
Hell, it could be the same set (or just two sets) every time for a while so the high post player would begin to recognize the pattern of developments and pick and choose the options.
That’s what the high post offense (I believe) is supposed to be all about.

It would also limit the possibility of the ball being taken from the high post player.

I would bet that in the short term that the screens wouldn't have to be that great, either

His mere movement would probably catch his opponent off guard. I don’t mean this to slam Evans, but the book on him has to be that you don’t have to pay too much attention to him when he doesn’t have the ball.

That's probably right

Smart already mentioned that he wanted hard cuts after the pass

We’ve already seen how well DMC makes those passes under the basket, when the guards give him the ball along the baseline and cut around him.

But, every time DeMarcus puts the ball on the court 15-20 ft from the basket, chills go down my spine. Didn’t two of his offensive fouls come from charge calls?

Agreed

I would love it if the Kings video guy or coaching staff cataloged all his fouls this season.

I am betting if he saw the breakdown, he would realize that he is getting half his fouls on offensive end (i.e., charging and over the back). If he could eliminate those habits or avoid those specific situations, he could stay in the game much longer. It seems very correctible.

I’ve actually been really impressed with his defense this year. He has had some bad lapses getting back in transition, but he doesn’t seem to foul much on the defensive end (especially for the amount of charges he takes).

R-Man - January 9, 2012 reply

Good observation

You have to have a jumper to make a living off back cuts...

Part of the reason Peja always got open is his defender was worried about his J. When Vlade or CWebb faked a pass toward the short three, his defender would always lunge toward him, fearing he would get an clean look. Peja would then cut toward the hoop for an easy bucket.

Tyreke doesn’t have the same game. The book on him is to clearly give him room to shoot the J, but whatever you do, don’t get close enough to him to allow him to drive.
This may change, but he’ll need to start hitting his outside shot a lot more frequently to make the back cut work.

That being said, I like him coming off a hard curl at the elbow, though, because the pick gets him into the heart of the defense, and all of the secondary defenders can’t provide help D as easily (unlike the iso plays from the top of the key, where everyone knows what is going to happen next).

R-Man - January 9, 2012 reply

Honestly i know some people are saying he doesnt have the experience, i would love to see Isaiah play more with Thornton at SG and Reke at SF,

Widowwolf - January 9, 2012 reply

Kings probably should have got the W

But overall, I was still encouraged with the over all play. Ball movement was improved(still needs improvements though), transition defense is still leaps and bounds better. Tyreke had yet another great game. Could he pass more? sure, but he is looking like an all-star again. Cousins continues to show that he can be one of the leagues best if he can remain out of foul trouble. Once Cousins gets in to foul trouble, he gets almost knock out of the game entirely. He really isn’t very good when he has to sit, play a few minutes, then sit again. Someone needs to wake Salmons up. Donte Greene was given a little under a 10 minute stretch and showed his need to be on the court by getting only 1 rebounds and 1 personal foul. Which was far better than Garcia’s 1 Turnover in almost 7 minutes.

I said it last week, but if the Kings continue to play with this energy level the wins will follow. 18 of the next 25 are on the road. If the Kings can make it out of this stretch of games alive, limping in to the playoffs could still very well be there. Have to start getting wins though

HeuristicLineup - January 9, 2012 reply

Donte played all 9 minutes at the PF

He got 6 in the first and while his offense was unimpressive, so was Clark’s who he was defending. Clark had 0 pts and 1 reb. Smart used Donte in the 4th to give JJ a rest while DMC sat in foul trouble. Donte held Ryan Anderson to 0 pts and 1 reb. While Donte had only 1 rebound himself, we was defending the outside shot most of the time. He also took a nice foul on Howard that saved a point.

On Donte’s offense, I believe that if Smart gives him the clean slate that he promised, Donte might not push has hard as he has. Donte’s taken 14 shots 8 from 3pt range in 25 minutes played. And even thought he’s averaging 1 pt per shot, I think he’s trying too hard to show that he deserves more PT, and it’s hurting his FG%. He needs to relax and gain some confidence.

If Donte is really trying too hard to get playing time

He would grab a rebound every now and then. I swear he has an allergy. He is one of the worse rebounders in the league, regardless of position. Very odd for a man who can almost put his elbow over the rim.
Fredette AND Thomas are killing him on the boards this year.

With 25 min of PT, it's hard to say why

We always criticized Hawes for his poor rebounding, but as good as he’s playing right now he isn’t pulling down Offensive boards because they have him playing in the high post. He’s got a 29.0 Def Reb Rating but only a 8.9 Off Reb Rating.

Salmons and Outlaw have a 10.0 DRR and Salmons has a 2.2 ORR while Outlaw is at 2.8. Donte was 10.2 DRR and 4.8 ORR for all of last season.

The point that I’m making is that being tall doesn’t help your rebounding numbers when your playing in a system that makes you stand around outside the 3pt line. I’m still going for the PW’s Imaginary Offensive System Defense in the court of public opinion for all of our young players.

And, PW may it crystal clear that Donte’s role was to defend his man. So, the fact that he doesn’t cheat into the paint should be no surprise for anyone. Because we all know what happened to young players that forgot their role in the PW era.

There were roles in the PW era? But good post.

I don't remember the PW era

but I’ll take your word. I will give him sometime in the new system before I conclude its him or PW. My expectaions though are very very low that he improves on this.

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Ryan Anderson might be a good example

But not Earl Clark. Dude’s played 27 minutes and taken 7 shots all year.

+1

Donte>Clark

Unfortunately, Earl Clark has always been more promise than production. One could say the same of Donte Greene, but at least Donte has one more year of NBA experience, and all with the same team.

polotown - January 9, 2012 reply

True which is probably why Smart felt he could play Donte on him in the first place

But, let’s not downplay the fact that Clark got his One and Only basket while Donte wasn’t guarding him. :)

And, I think Smart saw enough that he felt that he could play Donte on Anderson for a few minutes down the stretch in the 4th quarter, to allow JJ to get some rest. At least, that’s the way I see it.

Thoughts:

1) We had 5 assists in the first half and then 8 or 9 in the third quarter alone! I thought that was progress.

2) That three pointer off the backboard by Turk was the luckiest freakin shot and totally demoralized us.

3) Jimmer, Thornton and Salmons all were non-factors offensively. We can’t win when that happens.

4) Tyreke reverted to his ball-hogging alter ego the last couple minutes when he tried to do a crazy no-look layup instead of passing to the perimeter (even though we would have missed the 3). That invoked some cries from the crowd.

5) I think if Dwight had been in the game, we might have actually done better. He would have made 50% of his FTs instead of Big Baby getting 20 points on like 7 shots. That dude couldn’t miss. Couple that with our high FG% and I think we would have done very well.

I doubt we get 52 points in the paint with Howard playing 35 mins or so.

rubenho - January 9, 2012 reply

Baby has a nice 12 footer

He’s going to open for it a lot if he plays at the same time a D Howard this year.

We lost because we didn't adapt to their changes to their game

Orlando averages 26 attempts at the rim when Howard is on the floor. Without him last night they only took 14 attempts. Orlando normally takes 23 shots from beyond the arc, but last night they took 32 most of which they missed.

Where we failed to adjust is that they were getting all the long rebounds off of their missed 3’s. Davis, Anderson and Howard combined for 23 of their 43 rebounds. The other 20 went to their guards and wings. Between our turnovers and their offensive boards, they ended up taking 17 more FGA’s than the Kings. And, they turned most of those extra shots into 3pt attempts.

Even if we had the same amount of turnovers, without the additional offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points, we might have won.

Fun watching them run

Limited ceiling with this team

As long as they play as they have been, even when playing good, this team will have a hard time making the playoffs. WAY too selfish. Don’t coaches/brass understand this? Maybe selfish is the wrong word……Maybe it’s that they don’t understand how to play as a team. MT should be a role player….some nights he can score 25 others 5 but he has to be reeled in. I think Jimmer could be a satisfactory playmaker for this team but he can’t guard a bar stool. IT shows some promise but way to turnover prone at this point. Not sure what the answer is but if they continue with the philosophy they had last night it’s 25 wins tops with nothing but frustration

Pdidd - January 9, 2012 reply

Long term MT should be 6th man. He is definitely a shoot first, shoot second, pass third player

Which is fine as the spark plug off the bench carrying the second unit. Jimmer still needs to adjust to the speed of the league. But long term, I could see Reke and Jimmer starting with Thornton coming off the bench and providing instant offense a la Bobby Jackson.

Anybody else getting tired of watching Tyreke taking and ill-advised game on the line last shot?

It seems like he is trying soooo hard to be the team superstar when he would have been better served passing up that drive to the hoop, four players collapsing, spin and throw up a behind the back prayer, that cost us the game. Salmons was open in the corner and MT was open at the top. Plus Tyreke turning his back negated any chance for a foul being called.

1damutt - January 9, 2012 reply

Having Evans be designated point guard is a square peg round hole problem. The team would improve if Evans was playing small forward.

Disagree

Evans is the best point guard on this roster. Unless you are bringing someone else in, this team takes a step backward with anyone else on the current roster running the point, especially when you factor in both ends of the court.

Evans played extremely well for most of the game last night. He certainly turned in the best performance of any of the Kings players. While his late foray to the basket was ill-timed and unfortunate, the game never reaches that point without his stewardship through most of the game.

turning in the best performance doesn’t equate to being the best point guard. With him at point guard it is difficult to calculate how performances of the rest of the team would be affected. [sorry for my ignorance in double posting]

Brilliant

Let’s totally minimize the impact his size gives him on both ends of the court at the lead guard position by moving him to small forward.

He’ll be an average to below-average SF, but he still has the potential to have an incredible impact as a PG.

So let’s move him. That makes total sense.

I could see running him at the three in certain, very specific situations…but otherwise, that’s crazy talk.

To me this is saying that he has the potential to have an incredible impact at something he appears to have no interest in actually doing. I may be wrong about SF. What do you think about Evans playing shooting guard with Thornton as distributor?

both gunners, thornton more so

Either one of them needs to play quite a bit of minutes at the 1 or instead one needs to come off the bench.

Is a suggestion that Fredette start at PG and Evans at shooting guard, with Thornton off the bench a reasonable one, in your opinion

I think you will see that at some point during the season or at least see Jimmer running point because of injury

I wouldn’t be pissed off about it but certaintly not calling for it. I loved what we saw from Jimmer in the first half last night though.

If I was using my awesome NBA 2k12 skillz, I’d be allocating at the PG/SG/SF positions probably about 36 minutes to Reke, 16 Jimmer, 8 Isaiah, 33 Thornton, 30 Salmons, 15 Garcia with perhaps a few minutes stolen at the SF spot with either Honeycutt, Outlaw, or Greene.

good to see you suggest meaningful minutes for Isaiah

I really want to shrink the Salmons recommendation big time

would agree about that for certain – about 15 Salmons works for me.

Crazy King Man from OZ - January 9, 2012 reply

15 Salmons?

I like the guy, I don’t want to see a team photo like this:

recd

Dead Fish’ed

You're Killing Me

No matter how hard you try to get rid of him he just keeps coming back. Hope Mr. Personality steps up his game. In the meantime, more Garcia, less Outlaw.

convoy - January 10, 2012 reply

This must be photoshopped

If this were a true John Salmons group photo, each John Salmons would have his own ball.

section214 - January 10, 2012 reply

Don't like it at all

But that would be preferable to the small forward position IMO.

Just my opinion, but you and many others are too focused on his negatives, and completely ignore the areas he excels in. He’s a handful at the point guard position if he improves in a few areas (and don’t forget, this kid is younger than Jimmer Fredette).

You put him at small forward and all you’re doing is making him an average player in just about every important area of basketball performance.

IT
MAKES
ZERO
SENSE

This

Uber-focus on Evans’ negatives, with a blind eye to Fredette’s negatives.

not a blind eye to Fredette’s negatives, just a recognition that it has been years since Evans was a green rookie.

Well,

Not even one full season if you account for injuries – Evans has played 66 games since his rookie season, and the team was locked out this past off season. And Jason Thompson is the only rotation player that is still here from Tyreke’s rookie season (with Garcia and Greene).

And there is some question (to say the least)

If anyone on this team was playing in a productive learning environment.

Heh

I share your frustration with Tyreke at PG

but being a PG means that you create open shots OR find the player that is open. Most really good PG’s still need someone with whom to run the pick and roll or set screens for them, and that’s always been a problem with the Kings bigs. And, even a Rondo or Nash needs someone to get themselves open or get in position to receive the pass and make the open shot.

For all of Tyreke’s faults, it’s not always his fault. The offense wasn’t structured to get anyone open UNTIL Tyreke was in the paint and looking to kick out. Smart used an screen in the low post to get DeMarcus an open look right in front of the basket in the first play of the Bucks game. Now the pass came from Hayes but the same type of situation needs to be run using the guards.

Tyreke needed to have plays run to get someone open or going to the basket so he know who would be open and when to make the pass. He’s never been an instinctive play maker. He could be in time, but until then he needs the help of his teammates and coach, and he isn’t getting that.

Thornton pales in comparison to Reke as a distributer

and he is a terrible ball handler in my opinion

But isnt that like saying

Let’s totally minimize the impact of Isaiah’s speed gives us on both ends of the court at the lead guard position keeping him on the bench?

Honestly he drives better, is quicker , much better ball dist. and creates much more havoc . It was cute to see him guard D. Howard….He did keep him out of the paint lol

1damutt - January 9, 2012 reply

I like Isaiah

But no, I don’t think it’s the same thing at all. His speed is a mismatch, but it’s a necessity since he’s so darn small.

At least until he learns to play better off the ball . . .

Until then – it’s a waste. You have to use what you have.

But...

Evans getting better off the ball won’t make Jimmer and Isaiah better point guards. They are both good rookies, but they’re still rookies making rookie mistakes, and adjusting to the NBA game.

Tyreke is the best player we have at 3 different positions, and I’d love if we could move him to the starting 2 or 3, but we don’t have a better starting point guard at this point in time.

rpmonkey - January 9, 2012 reply

I disagree

you give the ball handlers easier opportunities to distribute by moving off the ball, cutting etc

Everything and everyone looks better and has more confidence. Not that I’m laying it all on Tyreke, the whole team can play much better off the ball.

Agreed

Who's best might not even be what Smart bases his decision on

The coach is trying to build Family, and inserting a rookie means he has to move one of his star guards to the bench. And, that means that Thornton is the odd man out and I’m not sure how well he’d take that move. Especially, if Jimmer had trouble initially taking over the PG role,

But, eventual when the team gets to the point that you’re describing I see Jimmer as the best option. And, that’s not to say that Tyreke’s game will change in any way. He can still play the same game no matter whether he’s a 1,2 or 3.

I also think he has the ball in his hands most the time

whether he’s a 1 2 or 3.

Now that he has been paid

I would bet Marcus would be more open to a move to the 6th man. Even more so if Evans and Cousins become the #1 and #2 offensive options in the starting lineup.

markdog333 - January 9, 2012 reply

As an aside, its weird seeing Thornton get paid this year, and Tyreke 2 years left on his rookie deal...

Same draft class. This CBA is totally backwards.

I don't know, Marcus is a player

I remember one of PW’s last games, during a timeout PW said something to Marcus, and Marcus walked away and out onto the court. The camera was close in on his face and you could see that he was extremely upset.

After the timeout, Jimmer was on the floor in Marcus’ spot and Marcus was on the bench. It wasn’t hard to figure out what PW said that upset Marcus so much.

prowseinthehouse - January 10, 2012 reply

That could have been because PW pulled him

just as he was getting into his groove and was starting to go off. It was probably the worst time to bench him. (If we are remembering the same incident)

It probably was, but Thornton always thinks he's in his groove

which is why I think that Smart has got some family building to do before he asks Thornton to come off the bench.

really prefer him at the 2 over small forward.

haven’t seen him guard small forwards all that great. He’s a relatively good ballhandler too. Granted I don’t think he is quite a point guard but would even prefer that to small forward to be honest (if we had a different point guard on this team I might change my mind though)

Two guys that I would love to pair in the backcourt with Tyreke:

D.J. Augustin or Jeff Teague.

Augustin would be great

I know he’s short and his stats right now are a bit inflated but he seems like a sneaky stud defending point guards.

Augustin was the guy I wanted in the JT draft.

I wonder if they’ll deal him due to having Kemba, but I doubt it. He’s a good player.

Aykis16 - January 9, 2012 reply

Such fond memories

A couple years where the Kings would have the #10 pick in a 9 player draft.

We're very good at getting pick X+1 in a X player draft

Fortunately Khan and Wallace have aided us by selecting one of the Y or Z players in back to back years.

Its long standing tradition

Who can forget having the #1 pick in a draft with 0 players.

Pervis was a player, he just had bad knees.

But yeah, one day we deserve a #1 pick in a year with a Duncan, Shaq, LeBron type available.

didn't we have 4 first round picks in that draft?

The worst draft in NBA history??

markdog333 - January 9, 2012 reply

Nope,

that was the next year.

You mean the Blake Griffin draft?

too soon?

Agree. Especially with Augustine.

Good D and three point shooting. Also a nice distributor. Would be a good fit next to Evans.

turning in the best performance doesn’t equate to being the best point guard. With him at point guard it is difficult to calculate how performances of the rest of the team would be affected.

That does not change the very real fact that he is the best PG currently on the roster

Neither Thomas or Fredette is a better PG than Evans today. Maybe someday, maybe not. But not today, and for emphasis, especially when you factor in the defensive side of the ball, where half the game is played.

Good point, but the team’s defensive needs might be different with Evans at the 3 position. Maybe not, but conceivably.

They would be different.

We’d need more defense from the 3 and the 1.

Overall I agree with your position, but using defense is a weak arguement

If Fredette or Thomas were to move to starting point, you can’t compare their defense to Reke’s because he’s still going to be playing. You have to look at the difference between Thornton’s defense and the new PG. In most matchups, I’d prefer Thomas defending the PG over Thornton defending the 2. Jimmer and Thornton are a wash right now.

Jimmer and Thornton are a wash right now.

I know that Thornton struggles defensively, but there’s no way anyone can say that with a straight face.

Agree

AT this moment Thornton is both a better shooter and defender than Fredette.
Jimmer is a better handle (not sure he is up to nBA level yet) and a better passer.
On a 1-10 rating if Thornton is a 7 then Fredette is a 3.

I don't know how to find out, and it's too early in the season to say anything of value anyway, but:

I’ll be curious to see how Marcus and Jimmer’s defensive numbers compare, which is the specific comparison HT was making. I don’t think anyone (well, nearly anyone) is arguing that they’re comparable offensively.

lead_pipe - January 9, 2012 reply

OK, but...

Fredette for Thornton: You take the team’s best and most efficient offensive player off the floor and gain nothing defensively.

Thomas for Thornton: You take the team’s best and most efficient offensive player off the floor and you get better defensively, but probably not to the point that you make up for what you have lost offensively.

Either for Salmons: You improve offensively, but you take it in the teeth defensively.

Simply, I do not see a scenario where this team improves by removing Evans from the PG position if the potential alternatives are restricted to the current roster.

Salmons hasn't been noticeably good on defense

save the Milwaukee game. And even then, that was only 4th quarter defense he played.

Ill argue the pro-Fredette for Thornton argument in a hypothetical fashion

Jimmer and Reke in the backcourt could help Jimmer get his game going while not having all the ball handling duties. And Thornton could enter the game in around the 4 min mark in the 1st quarter to be fresh, while getting to score willingly on the opposing team’s 2nd unit.

Defensively, this will be a little worse because Thornton is more active in getting steals, but I really think this can help us get off to better starts, while helping Jimmer get more productive minutes. The drop-off between our starting guards and backup guards is huge at this point in the season.

Wonderchild - January 10, 2012 reply

24 in 44

Over the next 44 days (starting tomorrow), the Kings will play 24 games, with 18(!) of those coming on the road. Given that it’s practically impossible to conduct full practices on the road, and that you generally do not practice the first day home from a long road trip, this would mean that the Kings will have an opportunity for full practices on (maybe) 1/24, 1/26, 1/27, 2/1, 2/3, 2/10, and 2/12. That’s 7 practices over the next month and a half (maybe a couple more squeezed in here or there). Tough sledding for a young team and a new coach.

great point

Do u suggest letting philosophy and playing time go as is or try to get JF/IT more minutes than they have been getting? If things r left as is I worry about us all gettting Salmonella poisoning or a Thorn(ton) in our sides. I think we can get the same results while allowing for young(est) guys get more pt. I just think this team has a higher ceiling with JF/IT taking minutes from JS/MT

Pdidd - January 9, 2012 reply

Jimmer and Isaiah are going to get their minutes to show what they can do

we’ll have a better idea of whether they play better at the point than others and wins/losses shouldn’t be the main factor for that, especially for a team on such a long road stand.

Let's look at this position by position

Salmons is a poor option at SF, but he’s the best we have. I do not see Evans as an option at the 3, as it would mean playing either Fredette and Thornton as your starting backcourt, which is a defensive liability, or Thomas and Thornton, which is severely undersized.

So it has to be Salmons at the 3, and that means Evans and Thornton are your best backcourt players. Even with Thornton’s off night last night, he is still the only King not named Jason Thompson with and adjusted field goal percentage of at least 50%. Yes, he could pass the ball every now and then. But the bottom line is that he is in the lineup to be a scorer, and that a shot from him is usually better than a shot from anyone else (though sometimes his selection leaves a bit to be desired).

I would like to see Fredette and Thomas get a little more burn, but the bottom line is that they are currently the 3rd and 4th best guards on the team, and they will need to earn their time, which is going to be a tall task in this compressed season. What works in their favor is all the back-to-back games, which should create some attrition, thus giving them added opportunities.

all points well taken.

Couldnt agree more.

As you said Salmons despite a horrid start is far and away the best SF on this roster. Many Kings fans refuse to see it but I would bet that most NBA execs would agree. Just have to hope he fights out of the slump. (Strangely enough fans are ok with playing Jimmer through a slump but not Salmons by the way)

Also agree there is no point to ’Reke at the 3 as it takes away all the things that make him special as a guard and also highlights the weaknesses of the replacement guards.

As you said there will be plenty of minutes to be had especially on these long roadies so I expect to see more run for Isiaah and Jimmer and hopefully they pick it up a bit. They definitely have skills to ring to the table.

Somewhat sad to think we still have people so upset about a late loss to ORLANDO, and also people still chastising a player for a “player of the game” performance. I think for some of us it is tough to be a kings fan for an entirely different reason than others.

Salmons slump

Goes back to the 73 games he played last season. He’s 32 and has some mileage. This is not a “just this season” thing.

There’s not one shred of tangible proof that Salmons is a better player at this stage of his career than Francisco Garcia.

Having said that

Cisco is not the long-term answer at the position either. Hopefully Honeycutt will develop into that guy. But for now, I’d rather see what Cisco brings to the table, and let Mr. Smiley ride the pine.

This would not break my heart

I’m not sure that Garcia is as smart as Salmons on the defensive end, but he wouldn’t be cholesterol in the arteries of offensive flow like our chin-boobed friend.

I don’t know, Cisco does usually play very smart defensively, as even if guys get past him, he still seems to find a way to Alter shots or just outright block them..

He is really good about getting around Pick N Rolls, usually, and IMO has more hustle on the floor..That and he is a 100% better leader on the floor then Salmons, who is like a dead fish when it comes to guiding things on the floor, (Yes you see what i did there, and yes that is what she said)

Widowwolf - January 9, 2012 reply

Most of Cisco's blocks come from help defense.

That said, Cisco would be good in a zone, which I think the Kings should employ more often, especially since Hayes will be out a few more weeks.

I'm not a fan, but I expect he'll be better

His biggest drop off this year is on threes. He’s shot 38% the last 3 seasons and is shooting 30% right now. I don’t think he ends the year there. This is most likely due to small sample size.

Not defending him. We really need an upgrade, but with his D and ability to drive and hit the mid-range jumper, he’s the best SF we have. And if his three point percentage normalizes, he’ll be passable for now.

Even with a decent three point shooting percentage last season

His overall TS% dropped significantly. So I’m guessing his mid-range game is where he’s really dipped.

I heartily disagree that he’s the best SF we have.

But he has to play, because if he’s relegated to the bench this early in the season, it makes the trade look that much worse.

Not sure who is better at this point

Salmons is still a good defender. Garcia is more limited. Greene is, well, Greene.

And I think the team wants to win, not sure they are concerned with the Salmons aspect of the trade or would play him to the detriment of the team. It’s not like Udrih has been tearing it up. And Biyombo, Walker and Knight have all been very meh. Jimmer’s performance is going to be more important in the long run.

Yep, not sure either

I know that Salmons is terrible offensively. So let’s see what Garcia has and if he can do a passable job defensively.

And I disagree – I think they would and will play Salmons. They took on a big contract and moved down in the draft to get him. Beno’s been fine

I don’t mind that they drafted Jimmer. I’d just rather they’d stayed in their original draft slot and kept Udrih or dealt him down the road.

I disagree.

And actually if you look at last season (and for the most part the season prior) Salmons started horribly and progressively got better. Last season he improved every single month except one. He finished post all-star break at 46% from the field and 83% FT while playing good defense. That is all I need from him and I would be happy. I think we just have to hope he turns the corner sooner rather than later. Granted I don’t think he is a world beater needing 38 minutes or anythign but I do still feel he is the best option.

I have no problem with getting Cisco a bit of run to see what he can do but I mean to argue that Cisco deserves the minutes with as poorly as he has played in his limited minutes is a stretch and especially when factoring that his history at SF doesnt light a fire in my eyes either. Give him a bit of run and see what he has but by no means as he earned an extensive look in my opinion. I’d rather have the better defender of the two struggling players.

Bottom line I agree at this point right now that the options arent good. But I do believe based on Salmons history and the limited other options he is still the best fit right now. But like others I have no issue if Smart begins getting guys like Cisco or even Honeycutt some minutes.

He hasn't earned an extensive look in his 40 minutes of play?

Okay, then.

Haha not what I meant

I meant he hasnt earned the right to start over Salmons in my opinion as Salmons is still the better defender and both are playing poorly (yes even in the case of the small sample size) but I did agree he should get some run especially on the back to backs and see if he can get it going. Hard to explain but I think you probably get what I mean.

Yeah, I gotcha

I don’t think we can take anything from Garcia’s minutes thus far though – and if we look at last season, I think Garcia was clearly the better player.

Definitely worth minutes

In this condensed schedule, a new coach he will get his chances Im sure to prove his value. Like I said I think Salmons history shows he starts slow but he did get stronger and stronger as the season wore on the last two years so I will hope he can get it going sooner. But in the meantime I am all for seeing what others can offer. Once Smart’s system is installed I think every guy deserves some run to see what they have.

Anything you see me say about Salmons

Take with a grain of salt. There’s probably not a bigger disliker of his game on this board.

Bringing him back was the equivalent of making a sequel to “Ishtar” IMO.

A common feeling

Among Kings fans I think that is the common feeling. I may not have seen him as an answer by any means but I think when his game right he could be a decent fit and actually was ok with the trade as I felt he as a SF was worth more than Beno as a fourth guard. But thus far obviously he is still lagging. I can understand alot of the negativity associated wit him. (although I do think he strangely gets it more from fans than others who are struggling offensively and still dont bring as much defense to the table either.)

One game at a time

can’t flip out after getting run out the gym (and it will happen). Just got to focus on each game one quarter, one possession at a time.

Agreed

I am hopeful we can see progress just by Smart making small tweaks

This situation is somewhat reminiscent of the Thunder a few years back.

P.J. Carlesimo was playing Durant at SG and had a very convulsed system and a supposedly promising team started the season 1-12 and faced a lot of criticism. Carlesimo was let go and Books made some simple changes, such as moving Durant to SF and getting the ball to his best players where they could score. Real rocket science. They were a bit up and down, but finished the season on fire.

I could see a similar situation here. Westphal got too “creative” for his own good. Smart’s best moves so far have been getting Evans and Cousins in positions to run the offense and score. There are other small tweaks he can make over time, but really playing to the team’s strengths should make a huge difference. Smart may not be a great coach, but he could be our Scott Brooks.

I dunno if it's that simple (for starts, trading for Thabo was when that team got the right personel in there for what they were trying to do)

that being said, this team was playing under Westphal about how bad the Thunder were playing for P.J. at the end there. Remember, they were so bad people were talking about them possibly breaking the single season loss record

Agree on both counts

The Thunder didn’t take off the second PJ was fired, but showed signs of life and immediately were more competitive. Agree 100%, the Thabo acquisition was key. Maybe Petrie will acquire a real SF as our catalyst.

Think the PJ-Westphal similarities are eerie. Inflexible system. Overbearing personality. Alienating players. Playing star players out of position and deploying them inefficiently in the offense. Brooks and Smart seem a bit similar as well. Maybe not great coaches, but liked by their players and can run a decent system.

Overall agree but I don't really see PW as someone with an inflexible system

didn’t see a system to begin with

I can't believe that SF

is Still our dead zone

Please don't make me cry at work :(

Peja Stojakovic would be spinning in his grave,

except for the fact that he’s not dead and with his back he can’t spin anymore, either.

About Marcus Thornton

I preface this with the recognition that PER is not the be-all and end-all, especially since it does a poor job of really taking in the defensive side of the ball. But it’s a reasonable yardstick, so let’s take a look at where Thornton ranks at 2 guard so far this year. So that we are comparing apples with apples, let’s set at least 5 games and 24 min. per game as the baseline:
Harden – 25.5
Bryant – 24.2
R.Allen – 23.9
Ellis – 21.8
Wade – 18.7
Thornton – 17.9
Redick – 17.9
Terry – 17.3
Martin – 17.0
Matthews – 16.8
Hill – 15.9
Young – 15.2
George – 15.1
Crawford – 15.0
J.Johnson – 14.4

Now, it’s early, so the Small Sample Size Institute would approve of these numbers. But since there has already been a lot of complaining about Thornton’s play, I thought that it would be interesting to see how he is stacking up against other 2 guards early into this season.

An observation that may or may not be true

I feel like Fredette knocks down his open reasonable 3’s (within 28 ft) and he doesn’t get nearly the open looks that MT gets. Is it me or does he not get that extra pass that others get? Just worried that he’s gonna get frustrated and maybe the team karma isn’t flowing in regards to getting him the ball when open.

Pdidd - January 9, 2012 reply

If Jimmer is as headstrong as he seems

We shouldn’t worry about him getting frustrated at his lack of opportunities and drop in minutes. He’s shooting 37% from the field and 29% from three, which might have a lot to do with not getting the extra pass. His sometimes-iffy shot selection (last night’s fourth-quarter 28 footer comes to mind) likely isn’t helping his case, either.

Again, he seems like a smart player, and has to know that his chances aren’t coming as often simply because he isn’t producing. I don’t see this being an issue all season, but right now Thornton deserves to be taking more shots.

Olde Greg - January 9, 2012 reply

Jimmer is going to need time to adapt his game

Last season, he was putting up almost 21 FGA’s per game and 8.5 were from 3pt range. I’m not sure anyone should expect him to shot at the same % that he did in college, when he as getting 36 mpg and was the center of the offense.

He seems to be trying to work the offense rather than jack up shots. He’s already been quoted as saying that sometimes he’s passing up good shots to look for great shots. Lets wait and see how Smart feels about that, and if things change.

All the starters except DeMarcus played almost 40 minutes in the Orlando game. That won’t continue in the road trips ahead. I don’t know how long it will take for Jimmer to get his shooting percentage up to where it was in college while only taking 8-10 shots per game, but when it happens his minutes will come.

I wish everyone on our team did this

sometimes he’s passing up good shots to look for great shots

CaliforniaJag - January 10, 2012 reply

That is interesting

Cause I think Thorton’s only had three good games and played more consistently last year. Maybe this says more about the lack of 2 guard talent in the NBA right now. Not a lot of impressive names on the list below Thorton.

Coincidence that his 3 best games

have been our 3 wins?

Aykis16 - January 9, 2012 reply

Nope

He has been the least consistent of the big three. Despite all the NaPG stuff Reke is still around 20-4-4 effort each night. Despite all of Cousins foul issues he usually produces around 15-10 (making exceptions for the blowouts). Thorton however is either the leading scorer in the high 20’s of misses a ton of shots from night to night.

Yeah, he's very inconsistent right now

But you have to temper that with the fact that he’s only in his third season. Hopefully, his game will grow to the point he’s a factor for the team even when he’s not shooting well.

Agreed.

He has always seemed to lack consistency which I think is his biggest negative. Even last year when he played so well for Sac he still needed volume on alot of those nights to get his buckets. I think he likely had as many nights well under 40% (a poor shooting night by all accounts) as he did nights over 45% (good night for a guard). As you said the key will be how he helps the team when the shot isnt falling. If he can get to the line, drive and kick out, make the defender work etc at least he can bring additional value.

Well said

I did like what I saw in the Bucks game in the 4th from Thornton. He drove and hit a couple floaters. I would like to see that more often, especially when his jumper is not falling.

Thornton's ability to get to the rim and hit the 3 is what makes him good

his refusal to share the ball and put up contested shots is what makes him inconsistent. His overall numbers are hurt by his inability to get to the FT line on a regular basis. His FTR is in the low 20’s while Tyreke’s except for his injury plagued season is in the upper 40’s.

Think you observation is true, but 18 PER is very good in general. Especially for a third option.

Harden is out for the season isn't he?

Whoops, Maynor

big loss for them though

Nah it just means more Harden.

And Harden is a baller.

It looks like it will mean more Reggie Jackson,

since Maynor was Westbrook’s primary back up.

Its ok guys

I think we can beat 76ers, Tyreke will go beast mode in his hometown and score over 40 points that night, you can count on it.

CousinsEvansDUO - January 9, 2012 reply

I've never envisioned Tyreke as a guy who can drop 40.

More like a consistent 20-30. Although I suppose he can get to the line a bunch if he wants to.

Aykis16 - January 9, 2012 reply

+1

It’s hard to score 40+ without hitting 3s.

Going to be a tough game

76ers are playing really good and very much up tempo

After tomorrow, we'll know what a real SF is.

Don't make me sad

Hopefully it's a better 40 than the one you predicted last night for Jimmer!

lead_pipe - January 9, 2012 reply

Holy cow

DeMarcus’ fouls per 36 minutes: 6.8
Last year: 5.2

I know this isn’t breaking news, but I hadn’t checked the actual number in a few games.

~~Hassan~~ DeMarcus Chop!

He is also asked to do a lot more on D this year with Dally gone and Hayes hurt.

He had a couple stupid fouls in this game, reaching to swat a ball when he was already in foul trouble. But, he seemed to acknowledge it, and did not get upset at anyone but himself.

Great points

Whenever you're down just remember

At least we don’t have Delonte West who the Secret Service won’t allow to enter the White House!

He is not allowed in my house either.

Mom'd

LOL

So sad, it's funny as hell

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/01/delonte-west-cant-attend-white-house-with-rest-of-mavs/1

Even worse, apparently it was all a Delonte fantasy

polotown - January 9, 2012 reply

…wtf?

Also, stating the obvious

Reke at the 1 with a 6’6" or taller shooting guard would create Havoc for the other teams D.
Thornton would be optimal off the bench, with Reke paired with a larger back court partner.

Brilliant, start Donte at the 2. He defended the 2 in the past.

Didn't we have that in Kevin Martin?

raiderking21 - January 9, 2012 reply

Not sure how many game they played together that year, but

they averaged 40 points on about 31.6 shots, currently him and MT23 are 36 and 29.5. Oddly that season it was Martin that was having an issue, hence the trade (I like to work in a hence whenever I can).

I know that, I was just saying that we had that once

There was not enough time to see whether it worked or not, and IMO, all sides were the cause of Martin’s departure, from his agent, to the FO, to Martin himself.

raiderking21 - January 9, 2012 reply

Thornton needs to come off the bench

There’s too much firepower at the start with guys who want to get theirs and get going vs. a guy who helps everyone get to where they need to be to make plays. Marcus will get his whether he comes off bench or starts. We desperately need a PG. Any PG at this stage.

That said, I think Philly is going to eat the Kings alive tomorrow.

Tom A~! - January 9, 2012 reply

i am at opposite ends from you.

There are not that many PGs I would supplant Reke for (without counting, probably less than 15, maybe 20) and almost none of them are gettable.
I also think Philly will win, if I am forced to bet, but by less than 10.
I think eating somebody alive is an almost coast to coast 15 or more point win.

With a little salt and pepper with a smig of garlic.

Disagree

I do not see “too much firepower” in the starting lineup. In fact, remove Thornton and I see a startling lack of firepower. Some fun facts:

The Kings are 18th in the league in ppg, so the solution may not be to take their leading scorer out of the starting lineup.

The Kings are 28th in field goal percentage, so the solution may not be to take their #3 field goal percentage shooter (and #2 adjusted FG%) out of the starting lineup.

The Kings are 24th in 3-point field goal percentage, so the solution may not be to take their leading 3-point FG% shooter (and the only one shooting over 30%!) out of the starting lineup.

The Kings are 22nd in free throw percentage (0.02 behind Fredette), so the solution may not be to take their best overall free throw shooter (when you combine percentage and attempts) out of the starting lineup.

And 1 -

Putting Thornton on the bench does not put a better point guard in the lineup – not if you are replacing him with a player on the current roster.

Dead on!

I agree 100%. I am one of those who would prefer to have Thornton as my primary scorer of the bench BUT not at the expense of my starting lineup. IF/When another guard is ready to be a starting SG or PG (or SF if it slides Salmons over) at that point I would welcome a move but I just dont see that player on this roster yet. If Jimmer develops then maybe, if if Isiaah allof a sudden cant be kept out of a lineup then ok, if Donte all of a sudden becomes the defensive stopper he was over a short period many moons ago then maybe, but until then I’d prefer to keep Thornton in the lineup.

I dont see him as a natural fit right now in the starting lineup but I dont think a better option is there yet either.

WebberDynasty - January 10, 2012 reply

Sound reasoning as always, from a pure scoring point of view.

And, when Thornton shoots well we win, unfortunately that hasn’t been that often. You can argue the SSS but even DeMarcus’ FG% is starting to catch up with Thornton’s.

As this month rolls on and the Kings continue to lose a major portion of their games, the fact that Marcus is a big scorer that doesn’t help the rest of the team be that much better is going to reduce his importance. We have the 3rd worst FG% in the league, and Thornton’s 43% isn’t helping all that much.

I think eventually Jimmer will get comfortable running the offense and he’ll get his shoot percentage near his college numbers. And, when he does, his overall benefit to the entire team in creating open shots and easy baskets will outweight Thornton’s 18.7 ppg on 15.8 fga’s. He’s averaging 1.18 pts per shot. The entire team is shooting 40% and their still averaging 1.12 pts per shot.

When we have someone who helps the whole team improve their FG%, Thornton’s PPG won’t be all that important. His 19 shots per game will just be distributed around. Whether that’s Jimmer now or later, or another playmaker yet to be acquired, I don’t know. But, I truely believe that having two of the same type of players in the backcourt at the same time won’t be successful. And, having a 3rd at SF, probably won’t be any better.

Good news

DMC #1 in RBs per minute for all qualified NBAers

And only 50% of those are his own ;)

Why you...

lol

Anyone hear Walton on 1140 radio tonight

He thinks starting 3 players with similar games and all who need the ball like Salmons, Tyreke and Thornton is a mistake. He thinks we need to start Jimmer and bring Thornton off the bench.

i would agree with Walton, but this is a not the majority opinion. I think it has Fredette playing the PG, for which he is naturally suited, and Evans is not, in my opinion. I understand Evans WANTS to play PG because he gets more opportunities to have the ball. Jimmer is a young rookie, but I would be willing to give him a chance to develop more comfort in a starting role that is defined.

ExPFCWintergreen - January 10, 2012 reply

That dude's smoked a lot of dope

otis29 - January 10, 2012 reply

It’s probably “crazy talk” to place any stock in the opinions of someone like Walton, what with his lack of basketball experience. Besides, I am sure that he never talks with his son about the current state of the league and its players.

It's probably "crazy talk" to assume that someone with a lot of basketball experience

Knows what the heck is going on with a franchise that he follows on an occasional basis.

It’s similar to trusting a guy like Hollinger or Bucher to know what’s really happening with this team.

Seems Walton fans are the only ones who think his basketball knowledge is so exceptional. Shouldn’t the fact that the only job he could scrounge up was a part-time gig for a franchise he has no links to – well, shouldn’t that tell you something about his “knowledge base”?

He was brought in to entertain and get people talking. He’s doing his job well in that regard.

otis29 - January 10, 2012 reply

:)

ExPFCWintergreen - January 10, 2012 reply

However

He like many others has also been pointing out how Jimmer has alot of development to be done. Particularly in getting him to take the open shot and not hesitate, and also not leaving his feet to pass (wasn’t that our first lesson in basketball by the way, how do so many NBA players do it unnecessarily!) or picking up his dribble to quickly.

I agree at some point it may make sense to try to have Thornton as a bench scorer (but in the Jason Terry type of role so he sees major minutes still) but I dont think that needs to be done until other players have time to develop and get acclimated to this system.

WebberDynasty - January 10, 2012 reply

When does the development start?

We gave Tyreke the ball when he was a rookie. And, DeMarcus was the center of the offense when he joined the team because Tyreke was out.

We don’t need Jimmer to take a major role in the team because Reke and Cuz are healthy. But, if we aren’t going to win any more games than we did last season, why not throw Jimmer into the Mix. Let him fail and learn by his mistakes with the 2 other players that are going to be the foundation of this team for years to come.

I’m not saying that I would do it, because I kind of regret that Cuz had to go thru that in his first year. But, Jimmer is emotionally stronger and I think he has a high BBIQ, so I would expect that he would learn quickly. So, the more minutes he gets, the sooner the team would benefit from his development.

I also feel that with Jimmer at the Point, the rest of the team would be required to learn to move in the flow of the offense. Which isn’t happening as well because they rely and expect Tyreke to try and score when he has the ball. With Jimmer, they’d know that if they work to get open or get each other open, everyone would get more shots.