Sactown Royalty

,

It's too late Jimmer, the game was over an hour ago.

Hayes. Outlaw. Hickson. Salmons. Garcia.

Should never see the floor. They are all terrible and have a neutral to negative impact on the game whenever they see minutes. Ugh.

DMC, Reke, IT, Jimmer, Donte, JT, MT23

I’d keep the above and just start over with the rest of our crap. Hassan looks like a throwaway and Honeycutt is too early to tell but will probably never amount to anything. Re-signing JT is essential at this point.

The way I see it

Cousins – Franchise player
Tyreke & MT23 – Interchangeable, Tyreke a little more valuable because of his D
IT & Jimmer – Both good sparkplugs off the bench, don’t really need both.
JT – Ideal 3rd Big on a contender.
Donte – Ideal 8th man on a contender.

Schnuppermeister - February 16, 2012 reply

If Donte is your ideal anything you are probably not contending for anything except the lottery

MichaelMack - February 15, 2012 reply

LOL

Donte is ideal for youtube shenanigans

Shizzo - February 16, 2012 reply

Exactly, our youngsters need better vets than these useless pieces of crap

Kingsfan916 - February 15, 2012 reply

i think the kings development process is on the right way

I just saw that movie the other night

funny flick

deadenddude - February 16, 2012 reply

The Kings go on a road trip.

Wowie!

That looked bad.

I hope this is fake

I dont want to see gifs of fatal accidents on here.

If it's a fake gif, it's a damn realistic one.

HeuristicLineup - February 15, 2012 reply

It’s real but the driver escaped unharmed somehow

Viliphied - February 15, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Like how Lin murdered the Kings, but everyone survived

SharkKings49 - February 16, 2012 reply

No it's not

No one hurt.

I don't think any of us do

But this is a bit different than the one floating around last week of a wrecking ball randomly smashing a vehicle driving down a city street. This idiot brought this one upon himself.

Olde Greg - February 15, 2012 reply

I don't think that's how one defines whether it's okay

The wrecking ball one was staged

Skeptic con Urquell - February 15, 2012 reply

I dont want to see gifs of fatal accidents on here.

pic’s don’t cause fatalities and not showing them don’t stop them.
Looks like a valuable public service message to me :>)

I went ahead and flagged it

if we’re cutting back on the nudity, we could cut back on the death too. I’m ok with that.

TheFifthMookie - February 15, 2012 reply

No one was hurt at all.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/awning.asp

You assumed death occured?

Bill2 - February 16, 2012 reply

This was just the 2nd game of Whiteside’s NBA career. I could not have been more disappointed.

I wasn’t disappointed. The way this team plays I’d much prefer at least giving him a chance to see what he can do. In fact I’m all for giving him more minutes. No one else seems to be playing well, so why not try and see what we’ve got with him.

It worked for NY.

I wasn't disappointed that he came into the game

I was disappointed that he didn’t seem like he was trying to prove anything. He looked more like a player who knew it was a blowout and nothing he did would matter than one who say “Hey, maybe I can make an impact and get people talking about how I need to play more”

Agree

It appears as if he just isn’t mentally strong enough to be a pro. His rapid fall in the draft makes more and more sense every time I see him play, or read anything about him.

elSAVinator - February 15, 2012 reply

That's fair

but I still give the young buck the benefit of the doubt.

Sometimes it’s hard to get into the flow of a game. Let alone your second NBA game ever which happens to be at the mecca of basketball, and there’s all those Linatics going crazy.

To me it really didn’t matter. The Kings see what they have in practice with him, and I guess we have to trust that he doesn’t deserve playing time. I would just like to see with my own eyes I guess.

Except

This is the rap on the kid. And it appears to be accurate – at least until he proves it wrong.

I don't disagree

but still, 6 minutes.

chenp22 - February 16, 2012 reply

Whiteside to me looks like a player who needs to be cut by a few teams before he gets it.

He seems like he has got by his whole life simply by being tall. Now that he actually has to work hard to make it, he doesn’t want to put in the effort.

I was excited when we originally drafted him, now if I never see him suit up again it will be too soon.

rpmonkey - February 15, 2012 reply

I agree

Say what you want about JT, he always had a great work ethic & wants to get better. Too bad we couldn’t put JT’s brain in Whiteside’s body. What a waste.

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

New York against the Knicks but the game ended with bupkis.

HeuristicLineup - February 15, 2012 reply

While Linsanity was doing stuff like this today

I was doing this

Monday Mornings Gif - Monday Mornings

Normdog - February 15, 2012 reply

I've found this to be more helpful for the Kings

If this is broken...

HeuristicLineup - February 15, 2012 reply

The dude next to him looks like a demon.

prowseinthehouse - February 15, 2012 reply

Eh, Just looks English to me

This game sucked

That is all.

lead_pipe - February 15, 2012 reply

I lied, I have more

It sucked and I hated it.

lead_pipe - February 15, 2012 reply

How did you find a gif

of John Salmons Sr.?

Kingstime - February 15, 2012 reply

haha. That is something I always thought of as well.

Both from Philly, show little to no emotion and just go through the motions at work.

Mad D - February 15, 2012 reply

I think anything featuring Stanley Hudson should go green

MichaelMack - February 15, 2012 reply

Ain't no Ron Fucking Swanson though

(might have to change my avatar)

He. Is. My. Idol.

MichaelMack - February 15, 2012 reply

Oy Vey!! These schlamazels can't get out of their own way and in the way of their opponents

Never have I seen such schlepping on court. Smart had better find some and fast before the wheels come off this wobbly cart.

Natomaser - February 15, 2012 reply

Oy Gevalt, the Knicks shtupped the Kings.

What a difference

December 31, 2011
Jeremy Lin, 4 MIN, 0 PTS, 2 TO, 4 PF

but tonight……..

Jimmered. - February 15, 2012 reply

Caption:

Jeremy: Someday I want to grow up to be an NBA player
Teacher: That’s nice Jeremy, but told the class to come up with a realistic goal.

What gets me is

Smart was Lin’s coach in Golden State. He didn’t see any potential is this guy?
Just watching Lin, I don’t see this guy as a fluke. He’s fairly consistent and smart on the court. He plays like a vet.
Kings should have picked him up in the offseason; Smart should have said, Hey, we should check this kid out.
Oh, wait, that’s right. The Kings don’t need a point guard in their avant garde offense.
I’m sure our offense will come to fruition sometime around 2241.

prowseinthehouse - February 16, 2012 reply

Smart was not even close to the only guy to overlook him

Even D’antoni did until he was forced to play him and got lucky

He was never this good until this year

I’ve heard he worked his butt off this off season. If it wasn’t for Melo asking my dad…er…D’Antoni to take a chance on him, the Knicks might have cut him as well.

Of course, all that could be fake as well.

Not sure what you mean by, "Never this good until this year."

High School:

In his senior year in 2005–2006, Lin captained Palo Alto High School to a 32–1 record and upset nationally ranked Mater Dei, 51–47, for the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF) Division II state title.

According to Dana O’Neil of ESPN, “Lin was the runaway choice for player of the year by virtually every California publication.”

Lin was named first-team All-State and Northern California Division II Player of the Year, ending his senior year averaging 15.1 points, 7.1 assists, 6.2 rebounds and 5.0 steals

College:

Lin sent his résumé and a DVD of highlights to all the Ivy League schools, Cal, and his dream schools Stanford and UCLA. The Pac-10 schools wanted him to walk-on.

Harvard and Brown were the only teams that guaranteed him a spot on their basketball teams, but Ivy League schools do not offer athletic scholarships.

Harvard assistant coach Bill Holden saw that Lin was 6 feet 3 inches (1.91 m), which fit the physical attributes he was seeking, and he had a 4.2 grade point average in high school, which fit Harvard’s academic standards. (Holden was not initially impressed with Lin’s on-court abilities, but saw Lin playing in a much more competitive game, driving to the basket at every opportunity with the “instincts of a killer”).

Joe Lacob, incoming Warriors’ owner and Stanford booster, said Stanford’s failure to recruit Lin "was really stupid. The kid was right across the street. [If] you can’t recognize that, you’ve got a problem.

Kerry Keating, the UCLA assistant who offered Lin the opportunity to walk-on, said in hindsight that Lin would probably have ended up starting at point guard for UCLA.

Source: Wikipedia

My guess is he was referring to his pro career

Guess it was his use of the word "never" without qualifiers that fooled me.

Makes it sound like there was never a clue or hint he could play well until now.

I think for most professional athletes

It’s assumed that they had success prior to coming to the pros. YMMV, of course.

That goes without saying.

It is just extremely unlikely that a player become an All-Star caliber player overnight. It is far more likely that his skills went unrecognized by a number of people.

I wonder if Lacob sees those words burned into his eyelids

as he scours the waiver wire for the next Ish Smith

Lol -

I am sure there may also have been a little embarrassment in NO after we picked up MT. He languished on their bench, putting in good performances in the few opportunities he was given. No one seemed to notice, except perhaps Petrie.

Every GM’s nightmare to trade away a player, who turns out to be star caliber.

There was no way Lin was going to get burn in GS because of Ellis and Curry.

There are two things that a pure PG needs to succeed: a system that allows him freedom to operate, and teammates that are willing to move off the ball to get open. He has both of those things in NY. He is a great story for the NBA, and Stern and the Knicks are going to ride this bandwagon as long as they can, but he really did find the PERFECT opportunity. This Knicks team is kind of a “perfect storm situation” for a guy like Lin. I think they were clearly setting the team up for a guy like CP3 or Nash, but now they may not need one of them.

Skeptic con Urquell - February 16, 2012 reply

There was no way Lin was going to get burn in GS because of Ellis and Curry.

yeah and Lin didn’t have an NBA caliber shot when he was at the Dubs, he was an energy guy who just played spot minutes with a rabid fanbase screaming his name and distracting the game flow.
He got a lot better by working on his game and he got a lucky break by landing on a desperate NYK team with chandler then getting his opportunity against the soft spot in the schedule. with his current skills he woulda eventually broke into the rotation but not with such a big splash.

Here's the thing

Jeremy Lin went undrafted, meaning he was passed over be every NBA team, most of them passing him over with multiple picks.

He was then waived from Golden State this past December, meaning not only did Smart not see this, but the new regime didn’t see it either. He was then picked up and subsequently waived by Houston, who didn’t see this. He was then on the Knicks roster for about 2 weeks, with nobody seeing this.

He can from nowhere, and nothing in his previous NBA playing experience indicated this would happen. His Per 36 numbers are dramatically different from last season.

We can raise it as a red flag, but the fact of the matter is that Lin was on nobody’s radar.

Exhibit G - February 16, 2012 reply

He was about 3 days from being waived by the Knicks too

If Baron Davis didn’t suffer a setback, we might not be talking about Lin at all.

Skeptic con Urquell - February 16, 2012 reply

We can raise it as a red flag, but the fact of the matter is that Lin was on nobody’s radar.

lookiing back it’s surprising the kings didn’t pick him up off waivers when the dubs dropped him as the kings didn’t have a curry on the roster and coulda used a point guard even one who was only as good as the lin of that time, and smart must have brought it up since he was familiar with lin? Imagine lin working with tyreke, cousins, and the other young kings? scary good.

Yeah you would've thought so huh?

I don’t want to fire Petrie, I’m too afraid of who the Malindas would replace him with but to me that is easily his biggest screwup – year after year with no legitimate starting point guard to lead this young, inexperienced team.

Wait a minute

The Dubs waive a guy that shoots under 40% (and 20% from 3), and you define the Kings’ lack of interest as “surprising?”

A ton of teams passed on Lin, and even the Knicks were close to cutting bait with him before giving him this last look. The Kings front office does plenty of stuff to earn our disdain without us having to go hunting for this kind of stuff.

prowseinthehouse - February 16, 2012 reply

...

The Dubs waive a guy that shoots under 40% (and 20% from 3), and you define the Kings’ lack of interest as "surprising?"

only cause the Dubs have Stef Curry and the kings have no real play making point guard. Lin had shown he was backup point material which was not very useful to the dubs but could have been to the kings? Seems like trying him out woulda had more upside for the kings than keeping him did for the dubs? I’m thinking that NYK had less reason to pick him up than the kings had?

Skeptic con Urquell - February 16, 2012 reply

Lin couldn't beat out Acie Law for minutes

I know, I know, that was all Keith Smart and his little club. Sheesh, Jeremy Lin was on no one’s radar a couple of weeks ago, and the Knicks decided to kick his tires one more time to see whether or not they wanted to guarantee his contract. But the Kings should have known to sign him. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I think that is what I was getting at

Sure he was overlooked, but he fills a need for the Kings. They should have grabbed him or even another pg who was a known quality.

The whole team played like poop...

…curious to see if there will still be Hayes protectors after the All-Star break because as far as I’m concerned him, Salmons, Hickson, and Outloaw need to be gone ASAP.

KingsFromNY - February 15, 2012 reply

Yes

Throw Garcia in that collective pile of garbage.

It is embarrassing watching chuck hayes try to play nba basketball right now

He has zero confidence in his game – correctly

His one little move could have been swatted away by any six footer not confined to a wheelchair

Plus you get the added veteran bulk preventing him from getting a goddamn rebound if his life depended on it.

I wonder if an nba player has every successfully applied for ssdi disability?

lchristmas - February 15, 2012 via Android app reply

LOL

I wonder if an nba player has every successfully applied for ssdi disability?

Man, I thought I was harsh. I am going to have to step up my game. ;)

I like Hayes

Unlike most Kings, he know how to play defense, moves his feet, sees what the other team is trying to do. He needs to get healthy and in shape.
Hickson would be getting four or five dunks a game playing with an NBA point guard.

Did we ever run any offense?

Saw the game in bits and pieces and most of the possessions ended the same- somebody bricking an iso-ish jumper. And if i was any team in the league playing us, I’d just run a pick and roll every play as we apparently have no way to defend this play.

outrider - February 15, 2012 reply

I wondered the same thing throught the three quarters that I lasted

What does our practice look like? Do we run actual plays or take turns running iso plays on one another?

Olde Greg - February 15, 2012 reply

This is often a very good question to ask during Kings games, unfortunately. Also, Aykis hit the nail on the head talking about our lack of court awareness. There needs to be set plays that are modified depending on who is on the floor and what the situation is. Our offense instead seems to be pondering the basket from the perimeter until the clock nearly runs out, at which point whomever has the ball throws up something. Not the best. Tough to watch tonight.

People should honestly mass tweet Reke to fix his jumpshot.

Fadeaway kills him. It’s awful.

Its been 3 years and nothing's changed.

Kinda starting to loose faith that it ever will with him…

It has changed.

The problem is he gets in games and he forgets what he has learned. That 3 where he was set proved he has a good formed shot. It’s getting him to consistently use it in games that is the problem.

If you don't think he's heard it a million times already, from people much closer to him

You’d be wrong. It’s muscle memory at this point, and that’s hard to unlearn.

Yeah, but it's still an excuse, in my opinion.

As a former athlete for the past 15 years in swimming, I know a thing or two about muscle memory. Yes, things you’ve done for a while are hard to unlearn, but you have to do it, or you won’t improve. You have to be able to improve your own technique, and that can be hard because you’re doing the same thing all the time. But if you can’t improve, you’ll just remain mediocre.

Along with talent needs to be the drive to improve yourself. That’s all there is to it.

I'm starting to think his perimeter game is going to be Jason Kidd

No midrange game and needs to have his feet set to shoot. If he’s moving when he shoots…yeah.

outrider - February 15, 2012 reply

Even Kidd eventually improved his perimeter game.

Let's hope it doesn't take 15 years like it did Kidd

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

True.

this made me laugh

Glad you had a laugh?

Just suggesting that since so many basketball players seem to tweet, etc, there’d be no harm in getting on his back about it.

Whatever’s going on now, he doesn’t seem to be getting it.

let me put it this way

even if I were to assume Aykis above is incorrect, believe it or not but sometimes a player’s twitter account isn’t necessarily run by just that one player. Often times they have “business” partners who help them with their own branding or marketing (or just at times friends from back home) actually run their twitter accounts for them.

Ok, so...

Still, the substance of my post stands.

HarveySpecter - February 16, 2012 reply

Most of all, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired

elSAVinator - February 15, 2012 reply

What it is like to be a Kings' fan

It’s strange, the layers of misery that there are. You get used to feeling pretty miserable most of the time—what might be called "low-level misery"—a sort of permanent background of misery, and you learn to cope with it; it almost gets to feel normal. But then something happens…which reminds you of what it was like not to feel miserable, and it hurts so much you almost just can’t bear it. –Jean Ure, Plague

I'm not sure how much longer I want Reke being lead guard

Too much heroball, isos, fadeaways, can only finish with his right hand, etc.

When it works, IT REALLY WORKS, but that’s the point, it barely does. It gives me conflicting throughts because his jumpshot is too wonky to be a 2, and his vision isn’t good enough to be a legit 1. Speed and length is the only thing that keeps him on the floor.

*thoughts

It's funny, the other day I was thinking about the same thing

He has no jumpshot, no left hand, everyone knows he wants to drive to the lane, yet he still manages to shoot 41%. It’s kind of incredible to me, I just pray for the day he learns how to shoot a jumper.

elSAVinator - February 15, 2012 reply

Can you imagine if he had the ability to shoot?

The wonders it would do for this offense, not just him.

ridingthebench - February 15, 2012 reply

If anybody had the ability to shoot....

they would be worth keeping around. Easier said then done.

I haven't been happy with Tyreke since he got 20-5-5 and I walked out of Arco with a pin to prove I witnessed it

It’s been down hill since then, with a few flashes of his potential. The hard part is, the list of players that I would be willing to trade for Tyreke isn’t realistic and I’m not ready to trade him for less than a star caliber lead guard/SF, so at this point I’m hoping he can develop into the player we need.

SharkKings49 - February 16, 2012 reply

Ball movement would help.

The Kings never have more than one pass prior to throwing up an off balance shot. 3 point shots are rushed because of the lack of ball movement. The whole offensive scheme is a mess.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/1267053166_8590.gif?w=300&h=222

The Kings need to find a new way to get things done. Improvise.

Well, according to Jason Jones

We just passed Charlotte on the “most points allowed” category.

Huzzah.

OH BOY

WELL IF YOU DON’T LIKE THAT…

ok I’m done

betweentheeyes - February 15, 2012 reply

its what is to be expected when you start the year with no real pg

You got Tyreke who is napg its beyond obvious. You got Jimmer who is just learning and can’t stay on the court because the real of the predators see a baby lamb and attack him. Then you have I.T. who has been great for the 60th pick. But is a rookie. Really disappointed Petrie traded away our best point,and didn’t go after Billups. I’d trade Evans for Lin at this point he will never improve his jumper. He has a very,very low basketball I.q. sometimes I think he is a rookie. Hayes is a donut,Dalembert is 1,000,000 x’s the player of rerun.

WE NEED A DEFENSIVE MINDED CENTER - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

You'd trade Tyreke for Lin?

wtf.

Shizzo - February 16, 2012 reply

The Kings need to get the ball to their horses and have them run with it

I love this gif.

Francisco's horse isn't much better with the exercise ball.

Schneezel - February 15, 2012 reply

We have 22 mil commited this yr and nxt

To Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes, Garcia… horrible money management, but what can we expect from the Maloofs. All those players are veteran minimum pickups for playoff teams, and 1 of them is our team captain. Its sad, I’m hoping Geoff does something, but I don’t really trust in him in anything besides the draft.

Chent - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

That is terrible

Definitely fireable offenses. $22 million? Petrie is a joke.

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

I don't understand how a GM is capable of

Keeping his job after acquiring this mess of a roster. I was going to go on about all the mistakes/bad management he’s done but it will take too long. He’s been given way to long of a leash, but with the Mafools as owners I can’t just blame him.

Chent - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Petrie is a joke, and I don’t even trust him in the draft. Even without money from ownership, there is little excuse for what he has done to the team in the last 6-8 years.

My thoughts on our play

Jimmer “jump pass under pressure” Fredette
Tyreke “fade away jump shot” Evans
Isaiah “shoot instead of drive” Thomas
John “I just plain suck” Salmons
Marcus “inconsistent chucker” Thornton
Demarcus “temperamental” Cousins
and finally,,

The Sacramento “cant defend or execute the pick and roll” Kings

Ugh. gotta get my frustrations out somehow.

mmarcum - February 15, 2012 reply

How about

Demarcus “could be a top 3 center in the league if he could stay out of foul trouble consistently” Cousins

Otherwise spot on on everyone else

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

Top 2 even.

Offensively but not defensively

He is one of the worst defenders of the pick & roll.. He doesn’t even come out when Chandler went to set a pick for Lin. He just sits back and waits for the ball to come to him, and then fouls trying to stop the ball on his own.

If JT and JJ weren’t twice as bad Cuz would stick out more.

Offensively?

Potentially, but his shooting percentage is rough for a center, and has three times as many turnovers as assists.

Yes, but how many Centers are given the ball 15 ft from the basket and asked to create

If there was any way that the Kings could actually get Cuz the ball in the paint at least 5 times a game, his FG% would be up. Take a look at where opposing Centers are getting the ball and how many are in position to catch and shoot without having to dribble. Noah was 7-11 in the Chicago game, 6-9 at the rim on 6 asts, and 1-1 from 3-9 ft and that was assisted also.

In fact in the next game watch how long the Kings player that takes the shot, has the ball before they shot. Then see how long the opponents have the ball before they shot.

We don’t have the chance to recover defensively because the opposing players get the ball exactly EXACTLY where they need it to put up a clean shot. We always dribble the ball after a pass. In the NY game, Jimmer dribbled into the paint and drew everyone, he kicked it out to IT at the top of the 3pt circle. Instead of taking the open 3, IT dribbled 8 ft to his right. His man was able to close on him and the man guarding the KIngs player to IT’s right ended up doubling him and he missed a contested 2.

They do not know how to play 2 on 2 basketball let alone 5 on 5. It’s all one on five.

Obviously we have struggles running whatever offensive sets we have in place

if any. Either that, or we have a group of players who are just awful decision makers. Those two consecutive drives Tyreke made in the first quarter straight into three players were dumbfounding to me, as he has played 6,000 minutes in the NBA. That being said, DMC is shooting only 51.2% at the rim this year, and 31.9% from 3-9 feet. You can blame a poorly run offense on some of that, but I would not list decision making with the ball as a strength of DMC’s at this point. I am not arguing his potential, but at this point his shooting anywhere other than 16-23 feet is pretty rough.

We made it to the front page of Yahoo

The story is about Jeremy Lin’s career high in assists

Reke_Havoc13 - February 15, 2012 reply

Great, so happy Kings could help his career.

On the bright side,

the Kings are the 1st team to hold him under 20 points. Eh, who am I kidding, there was no bright to today’s game.

huffingtonpost too

Also ESPN.

Hassan Whiteside...

+7. Yes!
I’m a positive person. Even though this game made me want to commit Linicide

bringbackbuddytrees - February 15, 2012 reply

Jeez

Its not like the Kings left. The team is moving in the right direction; losing to one of the best teams in the league and the hottest. I don’t remember these comments when they beat the Thunder. They are not a good road team yet; they’re very young. But they are good at home. Knicks were on fire and Kings weren’t. Hopefully Kings learned something about the potential of a well-run pick and roll. Why don’t need to trade Tyreke or blowup the roster. In my mind, he’s only really had a coach for about a month. Move on.

1 of the best teams in the league?

Only w/this win did the Knicks get to .500.

Pretty sure he was talking about the Bulls with that comment.

And the hottest comment was for the Knicks.

*One of the hottest teams in the league. They’re playing really well right now. Lin has changed that teams mindset in a weeks time.

I do agree w/that.

The problem isn't losing to a good team

The problem is the Kings have major holes in their roster & a GM that is delusional because he doesn’t think anything needs to be fixed.

Everything clicked in the OKC game most likely because their coaching staff & players took us lightly. Alvin Gentry & Mike D’antoni didn’t make that mistake.

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

I think it was more

the emotion of the night that helped the Kings win that game.

I thought that

But then they followed it up with a stinker at home in front of a sold out crowd on Saturday, then got bitch slapped tonight while the whole country was watching.

OKC has the same type of one-pass(if lucky) iso-offense we do except they have a top 4-5 PG, & a top 2 SF running it. Most of the time it works for them but there is a way to shut it down. Or at least shut the rest of the team down like we did & try to squeeze out a win. With us it sometimes works but can easily be defended. Then we get ran through by the other team’s more sophisticated offense.

Allbenji - February 15, 2012 via mobile reply

really?

Did you just say that a top3 team in the nba is “easily defended” really.

Viliphied - February 15, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Only if you think the kings are a top 3 team in the nba...

lchristmas - February 15, 2012 via Android app reply

They are bringing in cook and harden to shoot 3's

We are bringing in donte and outlaw. They bring collison, we bring hayes. Their young point guard is actually learning how to shoot. And we dont run a simple, one pass iso offense. We run a dribble around and finally pass to an inept big man at the top of the key with 7 seconds on the shot clock offense.

That was truly hard to watch. Tyrekes charge in the first half may have been the worst play in the history of basketball. And chuck could be serviceable on offense if he could only pass, shoot finish or dribble.

Tune in next week for my thoughts on jj “crackbaby hands” hickson and john “I can’t believe my name is on the starting lineup every day, wtf do I have to do to get k9’ed up in this bitch” salmons.

Sweet lord, that game was disgusting.

lchristmas - February 15, 2012 via Android app reply

More the kings were just hyped about being on national T.V. and played out there minds that night.

mjjr42002 - February 15, 2012 reply

So wait,

You're saying Shaq was right?

Soooo

David Stern gives us the number one pick this year, right? Feel good story for the city of Sacramento. Kings stay and we win the lottery. Yes, I’m already looking forward to the draft.

New Orleans

Minnesota’s pick, huh?

have you seen New Orleans record?

pretty sure they can do #1 all on their own.

Charlotte's is worse.

pretty sure the Wolves record is better than the Hornets record though

(either way was just joking around)

NO does have the 2nd worse record in the league.

or their own.

The NBA has to boost the value of that franchise somehow, otherwise they will never move to Seattle.

Also,

when have the Kings ever had any luck w/how the lottery process goes? They’ll get the worst possible pick.

I was trying to be funny, didn't work.

Our luck has been horrible in the lottery. We need better good luck charms.

So, we are saying that the lottery is determined by luck?

pretty sure that's in the definition of a lottery

sorry for the double-post, I know I only clicked the button once...

Not the cure

I don’t think getting the first pick of the draft will change anything.
This team’s problems are systemic: questionable coaching, lousy off/def systems, no heart (aside from a few players), not very smart (aside from a few players), no bench, no floor leader.
Sometimes I think they should trade DMC and Tyreke just to free them from this lousy environment. DMC does not deserve this.
I think I’m going to root for the Knicks this year. They are fun to watch.

See you later.

Crocoduck - February 16, 2012 reply

Failure to launch

Mike Garza - February 15, 2012 reply

I wonder what this guy was trying to achieve..

I think he was doing quality testing for Cisco's trainer

Mike Garza - February 15, 2012 reply

Break a multiple of balls.

oooh, this one is better

Mike Garza - February 15, 2012 reply

Trying to be funny.

I think Smart needs to keep Whiteside off the court to keep his trade value up or at least to keep it @ whatever a second round draft pick is worth

Maybe we can trade Whiteside for a second round pick and give that genius Petrie a do over. The Kings need a real pass first PG so badly it’s not funny. Reke is not it. Reke will never be it. Reke will become an All Star level player when he doesn’t have to pretend to be a NBA level point guard.

Bluejohn - February 15, 2012 reply

Yeah, but Tyreke’s statistics have been impressive.

This X 1000.

ridingthebench - February 15, 2012 reply

me after the first quarter

mjjr42002 - February 15, 2012 reply

section214 - February 15, 2012 reply

I am so lost on Chuck Hayes.

I thought he was supposed to be a leader, defender, ball mover. So far I have seen very little to enjoy out of this guy. Is it because he is out of shape? And if he is a veteran, WHY is he out of shape mid season? No excuse for that. I work 8 hours a day, go to full time school at night and even I find time to workout and keep myself in shape.

Exactly.

Guy looks like D-Leaguer, not our $25 million dollar “glue” guy.

Chuckwagon has a broken axl

Oregon Trail says we need to trade it for our rifle. Oh wait. we dont have one of those either.

Slowstuff - February 15, 2012 reply

You rang?

shitty game

please dont blame tyreke…. our team is horrible

AnkleMan - February 15, 2012 reply

Just a random quote.. I found interesting.

As King 5 News in Seattle first announced, the city of Seattle will announce tomorrow a deal to build a new sports arena complex south of Safeco and CenturyLink Field’s on Occidental Avenue.

Chris Hansen (no not Dateline’s Chris Hansen) has been in negotiations with the city for at least a week over the possibility. The arena is expected to exceed $1 billion in cost.

The arena is the first step in bringing an NBA franchise back to Seattle after Clay Bennett (insert still-angry comment here) took the SuperSonics and away and moved to Oklahoma City. However because of the arena cost, as well as the interest, it is believed the city will pursue an NHL franchise for the city as well. Seattle has never had a team in the NHL, but has a natural rivalry with their well-behaved northern neighbors, the Vancouver Canucks.

So get excited Seattle, tomorrow is going to be an historic day and a big step back toward the NBA and a first step toward the NHL.

Meanwhile Charlotte Bobcat, New Orleans Hornet, Sacramento King, Phoenix Coyote, Florida Panther fans….time to get a little nervous.

Tyro18 - February 16, 2012 reply

AnkleMan - February 16, 2012 reply

Good for Seattle

and if they do end up getting the Kings, I’d rather it be them than f-ing Anaheim.

betweentheeyes - February 16, 2012 reply

luckthefakers - February 16, 2012 reply

It will never stop. Ever.

C’est la vie, mon ami.

By the end of this road trip the season will be half over

and if the Kings scrounge out 2 wins they’ll be 12-24. They’d need to go at least 24-12 in the 2nd half of the season to reach 500, which still wouldn’t guarantee them a playoff spot..

It’s time to give up on the vet FA’s and start playing the young players that might be here next year. It’s time to realize that unlike true lead guards, who can contribute without scoring. Tyreke doesn’t contribute to the offense unless he’s getting to the basket for layups. Please put an end to the Evans at PG experiment, it’s been a complete waste of time for 2.5 years now.

And, having a 2nd guard in the backcourt with Evans that doesn’t know how to give up the ball isn’t helping.

I know Coach Smart is trying to put a lineup on the floor that can compete both offensively and defensively, but John Salmons hasn’t been good enough defensively to justify his 7 pts a game, and when he goes 1-8 and 1-6 in a combined 50 mins in two consecutive games. Well we might as well only put 4 players on the court.

I’d rather have 5 players with some athleticism and energy playing rather then the crap we’ve see lately. Start JJ, Donte and Cuz, and bring JT and Whiteside off the bench. Start either Jimmer or IT at the point and let the other backup who ever starts. Start Tyreke and let Thornton get his 34 mpg off the bench.

I know that Smart is counting on the team winning 30 games to help him kept his job. But, like I said in the pregame thread. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity. John Salmons is not a shutdown defender and his shot isn’t coming back, for whatever reason. Neither Tyreke or Thornton can run a pick & roll. And, yes JT has found a left handed hook, but he needs to be out shooting jumper like Cuz to open up the paint against the 2nd team not the Amare’s of the world. And, could someone, anyone please set a pick off the ball that lets someone else cut down the lane.

I don’t necessarily believe that a youth movement will play better ball. They’ll probably play bad ball, but at least we’d see what they can do before next season. Think of it as garbage time at he end of a slaughter. Only this would be garbage time for the season. What’s the worst that could happen? We’d move from 14th in the West to 15th.

I started saying this 5 weeks ago

Agree with you on all points.

Start:
IT, Reke, Donte, JJ, Cuz

Bench:
MT23, JT, Jimmer.

Don’t play anyone else. Slide Reke over for backup 3 minutes and if we are in a pinch, give Salmons some backup 3 mins as the 9th man. JT is our second best big but his game is almost exactly identical to Cuz offensively. He is most effective on the high block, so it makes sense to have him on the floor when Cuz is resting and vice versa. Tyreke and MT23 do not play well at all together. In the end it doesn’t really matter, because we are terrible.

brobro - February 16, 2012 reply

I strongly disagree.

The Sacramento Kings have 33 games left this season. 33.

Sure, you can look at it in the way of “we would have to go 24-12 to even be .500”, but when is the last time the Sacramento Kings or their fans could say that the Kings were .500? So if we did in fact finish with .500 record or anything close, that’s a huge stride.

Our starting Center is 21, starting Point Guard is 22, our starting Shooting guard is 24, and Our starting Power Forward is 25 yet only in his fourth year.

I understand and to some degree agree that we should tweak minutes and perhaps starting rotations, but to simply “give up” on Free Agent vet’s is insanity. Travis Outlaw, John Salmons, and even Chuck Hayes, sure, perhaps you want to see all of them get some less minutes and go to the youngsters, but I still think Salmons should be starting. I think having Salmons as a starter helps this team more than perhaps starting Donte and having John come off the bench. Lower Salmons minutes, and give Greene/Garcia a lot more, but I think John as a start should stay.

The goes with everyone. I think the only starting rotation spot you should even consider changing is Marcus Thornton. I like Jason Thompson way more than I do JJ at this point, Cousins and Tyreke go without saying, iv’e already stated my opinion on John, and that only leaves Thornton. I think Thornton is still trying to find his spot on this team, or perhaps find the way he plays with this team. Nothing major, but small step transitions in finding out how he should attack defenses, and how aggressive he should be.

At this point, I don’t even think Outlaw should be touching the floor except for maybe 2-5 minutes a game, honestly. Let Greene and Garcia, who have history with this team and seem to always look more comfortable and effective, be out there. As for Chuck Hayes, he helps this team, when hes in shape. He doesn’t look in shape. Looking back to a year or two ago when he wore a Rockets uniform, he seemed slimmer, quicker…and though its hard to say, a bit more athletic.. I think he needs more time to get his basketball shape back.

My FINAL notes..even though im all over the place…

Give Donte, Garcia, and JJ more minutes.
Take some of Salmons and Outlaws minutes.
Consider bringing Thornton off the bench.

But most importantly, don’t tank this season!
We might get close to .500, we might not,
but we are looking more solid lately and we need to keep this up!

Tyro18 - February 16, 2012 reply

I should correct myself, I have been happier with the team excluding the last 2 or 3 games.

Tyro18 - February 16, 2012 reply

I don't want huge strides, I want to know what we have in our young players.

I want to see what Jimmer and IT can do running the team for 33 games, so we’ll know whether the last draft was a complete waste or not.

We had nothing going for us when Evans was drafted so we gave him the ball. With Evans hurt his 2nd season we made Cuz our main go to guy until Thornton was signed. We’ve got nothing going now, 7th worst record in the NBA, so let’s see what Jimmer can do starting or off the bench, so we know how badly we’re screwed going into next season.

At this point Salmons, Outlaw & Hayes are all signed to long term contracts, and there not helping. Time to send them to the K9 doghouse and see if any of them have any pride at all. In the mean time give as much PT to the youth to help in their development.

I kind of agree...

..and Tyreke has played his best when he does not bring the ball up the court. It gives him a choice of what he can do, whether it is to come get the ball, or slash to the basket.

Have to disagree on a couple points

Starting JJ “I’ve never hit an 18-foot-turnaround-fadeaway jumper in my life but that’s all I’m going to shoot for the rest of the season” Hickson is not a recipe for anything other than frustration. The only reason I don’t think JJ Hickson belongs as the last guy off the bench is because we have Travis Outlaw on our roster.

I also think that, for all his flaws, Tyreke is still the best lead guard on our roster. Unless you are going to pick up another guard to pair him with, he is still far ahead of the other options.

You misinterpet my reasoning for starting JJ

I don’t like him better than JT, it’s just that I don’t like the offense that comes with a lineup of JJ and Hayes on the floor together.

Now after saying that, JT averages one point every 3 mins of playing time and JJ is 3.7 mins, but JJ is the better rebounder and shot blocker. I’d rather have JJ with Cuz since Cuz is going to do all the scoring anyways. and that allows JT to be the scorer with Hayes.

As for Tyreke, if I thought he’d get better in the next 33 games then I’d go with him. But after 2.5 seasons he still can’t run a pick & roll, use his left to dribble or shot, and doesn’t force teams to guard him outside the FT line. Time for a change. See if Jimmer or IT get better with playing time. Let Tyreke do his thing from the 2 or 3.

Yes

I like how JT plays with DMC in general, but he get’s no touches other than cutbacks. JJ and Chuck being in the game at the same time is like playing offense three-on-five. JT can get 25 min a game either starting or off the bench.

I understand your reasoning

I just cringe every time I see JJ getting ready to check into the game. If he does touch the ball on offense outside of 3 feet, he might as well just hand the ball to the nearest defender, because all he’s going to do is jack up a terrible shot that will miss badly, and because he was so far away, he’s in no position to get the rebound. And even when our guards, by some miracle, actually manage to pass the ball to him down low, he’s just going to fumble the pass out of bounds or to a defender anyway.

JJ and Outlaw are two players I wouldn’t mind a bit if I didn’t see check into another game this season. Jump shooters who can’t hit a jump shot to save their lives.

I feel the same when JJ gets the ball above the FT line, but

I’m pissed at the guard who gave up the ball to him. Don’t they see the same thing you and I do. and he’s not a threat to take that shot, or drive or pass without a turnover, so why is he getting the ball there? Maybe the problem is with the guards who fail to use him as a screen, or maybe the guards are so lost that they’re willing to give up the dribble to the nearest option.

Either way, JJ shouldn’t be there and no one should be giving him the ball there.

I can't remember a team where our low posts players (I don't know if I could call them "threats"

Get the ball at the top of the key extended more often than our bigs do. It is out of JT’s range, though he has shown the ability to make a decent pass or two from there, and DMC just too often decides he is going to make a 22 foot dribble drive. I am as lost as anyone as to that being the desired action, or our guards are just bailing themselves out of not knowing what to do next.

Yes, Sir!

Start JJ, Donte and Cuz…

This is so easy of a decision I expected it by game 10 of the season. Here we are approaching Game 30, and we are witnessing the same incompetent crapola at both forward spots.

Can anyone honestly say they are inspired with confidence watching JT play, and that he has earned starter minutes? He hasn’t. He is dreadfully boring to watch, and complaining to the refs more than ever. But JT’s a perennial all-star compared to his non-running mate.

Samnesty has scored 16 points in the last 5 games. In 129 minutes of playing time, he has tallied 16 points. Incredible! Let that stat rattle around in your brain.

According to Jerry Reynolds, Samnesty should be good for 14 points per game. Almost, Jerry. He is good for 14 PPW. (points per week).

Here is another awesome Samnesty stat: In the last 14 games, he has shot 8 free throws. Thats 400 minutes of playing time, and 8 trips to the line. Its over for a player when he stops playing physical. It means the defenders are not biting on your moves. You are not being aggressive, crafty or smart. And you probably don’t care all that much, because you are not willing to sacrifice your body or initiate contact. The end (of your career) is near.

Here is the thing: This is not about who is deserving to start, because guess what? If minutes were granted based on who is deserving, we would trot out 3-on-5.

So I think we put two semi-loose cannons on the floor with our primary scorers. Fans don’t want JJ Hickson to shoot? Well put him on the floor with three guys who love to shoot. Fans don’t want to see Donte try to create his own shot. Well put him on the floor with guys who can create for him.

We have seen enough of JT and Samnesty as starters. It doesn’t work. Last night was a good case for when role players need to step up and exceed normal production. They flopped. Coming of Bulls game, our Big Three went for 20+ each, and so maybe there were some tired legs, physical and mental fatigue. We needed someone, anyone, to pick up the slack, and no one was capable.

Put JJ Hickson and Donte Greene in the starting lineup and you athleticism is really good. Your size and speed is really good. Fundamentals, not so good. But the hope is their athleticism gets this team running more, getting easy baskets. I don’t see much of a downside here. Its time to change the dynamic of the starting unit. The current group doesn’t mesh.

Coach Smart needs to do something bold to try to salvage the season. We don’t have Jeremy Lin on our roster, so let’s try this.

prowseinthehouse - February 16, 2012 reply

Hickson has started before

He was given the opportunity before JT was and completely and utterly blew it. I would rather him never play again than put him back as a starter

I honestly don't blame you, but this lineup is not working.

JJ Hickson put up 19/12 last month of season as Cav. on 52% I can’t believe he is as bad as he’s been. 19/12 on 52% cannot happen by accident, there has to be something there, more than the horrible play we have see so far from him.

That Cavs team won 18 games.

JJ has done nothing to deserve a starting spot, and JT has been much more consistent. I do agree that Salmons needs to be kicked out of the starting lineup sooner rather than later.

JT has been better than JJ. But better does not mean deserving to start.

So if no one is deserving, I say you have to experiment to try to find a complementary mix. The current mix is failing.

Depends on how you look at it, and how far back you go

The current mix has won four of it’s last eight, and the blowouts have finally been curtailed.

Deserves has nothing to do with it whether your talking about JJ or JT

JJ is getting 15-20 mpg as a non starter. The problem is he’s a non-scorer who rebounds better and is a better shot blocker than JT. JT is a better defender and scorer in the post than JJ or Hayesl.

NOw if you are going to find the best matchups, to play with Cuz and the best team to play when Cuz is out, that’s how you pick your starters. I want JT in the post when Cuz is out, and that means he can’t get starters minutes along side Cuz. Otherwise when they’re both resting or in foul trouble we have the least offensive minded duo on the court in Hayes and JJ.

I’m not saying that JJ should get JT’s minutes, just start then JT comes in and 3/4’s of the way thru the first so when Cuz sits we have at least one scorer in the post. Not that JT is a monster in the post but he’s way better than anyone else we have.

Exactly

It is about having the right mix on the floor, so we don’t go through scoring draughts.

I agree

At some point we have to just make a decision with Tyreke, if his future is at off guard, then put him there. It reminds me of the debate about Westphal, where since we didn’t know if we could do better, we should just stick with him until the team gets better. Well, we won’t get better if he is not good, that was proven. How can any of our young players learn to play the point of they do not have the minutes to work it out? There will be some ugly basketball, but let’s get that out of the way sooner than later, so we are not well into next season asking the exact same questions as we are asking today. I don’t care if Salmons turns into Francisco and we barely see him the rest of the year. We need to see what the young guys can do in extended consistent minutes.

Including Whiteside?

We need to see what the young guys can do in extended consistent minutes.

I wasn’t advocating for extended minutes, but I was advocating for him getting 10 or so a night to see what he could do. There didn’t seem to be much support for this, or support for him getting any minutes for that matter (other than garbage time minutes).

Well, I hadn't really thought about Whiteside

But ten minutes a night seems like a lot. I have seen so little from him, I guess I am of no opinion.

Lin played in the D-league, and so did Whiteside

it’s time to find out about all of our young players. I’d give him 10 of Hayes minutes. We have the 2nd worst Block Rate in the league, and teams are scoring in the paint at will. He’s at least worth a look for 10 games or so. See how he looks once he’s more comfortable with the games.

I think he did pretty well in the D-League, which is above the level that the Kings are playing now.

We have Chuck no matter what for the next five years, taking a month of limited playing time

especially if he heals his shoulder, is probably a decent idea. It might be ugly, but it would be interesting to see what Whiteside can do.

This is where I'm at

it’s time to find out about all of our young players

Including Honeycutt. At some point in time we’re going to need to find out who’s a keeper (or at least potentially a keeper) and who’s not, so these guys are going to need some minutes. I’m particularly interested to see what Honeycutt can do since the 3 spot has been a sucking chest wound for us.

I would like to see Honeycutt get some burn...

Especially with all the stud SFs in the 2012 draft.

Where the hell are you guys going?

2:3
OMG

Jimmered. - February 16, 2012 reply

That was a terrible possession

Look at Tyreke leak out as soon as Shumpert catches the ball and Outlaw and Thornton follow him as soon as he shoots it. I get the team wants to play in transition more, but you can’t assume you’ll get the rebound, particularly on long shots that tend to bounce long.

Don't know why Outlaw and Thornton follwed him.

It’s not like Tyreke is going to pass them the ball if we rebound and outlet to him.

lol

Shizzo - February 16, 2012 reply

OH NOES YOUNG TEAM LOSES TWO IN A ROW ON THE ROAD

Trade em all!!!

Can we talk for a minute about the rotations?

As in, who is on the court together?

At one point, we had Isaiah Thomas, Jimmer Fredette, Donté Greene, John Salmons, and JJ Hickson on the court together for an extended stretch. Jimmer was doubled every time he got the ball across the half-court line because he was the only one who can consistently score from there. We had three other chuckers on the floor (seriously, can we just amnesty Salmons already?), two of whom, once they get their hands on the ball when Jimmer had to pass out of the double-team (with only occasional success) don’t look to pass again. And our inside guy in that line-up has no hands, no shot, and plays minimal defense.

This was a badly coached game, and we’ve had a few of those lately. I know Smart is new, the guys are young, and we have to wait for what Smart is preaching to set in with these kids, but the line-ups and match-ups have been atrocious.

This is something I was going to touch on in the upcoming GBU

But I agree, the rotations haven’t been great. I also don’t like how he tends to play two different units instead of mixing and matching when the situation calls for it. Some of those lineups just leave a lot to be desired.

In Smart’s defense though, we have pretty terrible depth for an NBA team, with our most potent bench players being rookies. I do think it’s almost about time to start giving Tyler Honeycutt a look to see what we have there, because the rest of our wings are terrible. Donté has been the best, but he’s super inconsistent with his shooting touch, and that’s something we need our wings to be able to do.

Our most consistent wing player has been Tyreke.

I agree about Honeycutt, though. Unless he’s just stinking it up in practice or has a really bad attitude, let’s see what he can do.

Our depth is not great, but it’s mostly in the front court that we’re hurting. If Cousins and/or Thompson need to sit, either for rest or because of fouls, your only options are to put in Hayes, who apparently can’t jump, or Hickson who can’t hit anything beyond a three foot range, or put in Donté at the 4, which is ok against smaller line-ups, but he can’t draw the man guarding him outside because he’s shooting under 20% from outside.

Still, Smart has had some pretty bad game management mistakes, has put in really bad line-ups, and doesn’t seem to be able to get Tyreke or Isaiah or Thornton to pass once they reach the paint. Or get Donté to stop shooting the long ball. And why, why, why are we continuing to start Salmons?

I like how you qualified it as wing player. He looked good playing SF against Luol Deng.

Just sayin…

Opponents' numbers against Tyreke when he plays the three this season

PER: 40.2
eFG%: .714
Points per 48: 38.7
Just sayin…

Huh...well scratch that then. So what to do with Tyreke?

That remainst he question. He can’t run an offense and I think the PG experiment should be done. His SF stats aren’t promising as shown above. So that leaves SG. Well we have Thornton there and he would have to move to the bench for Tyreke to play there. Then that also means Isaih and Jimmer have to handle PG duties.

My point is, it’s a mess. Even with Tyreke at SG, he can’t make a jumper. He’d be a pure slasher. Plain and simple, he needs to improve his game. He hasn’t done that and isn’t where we thought he’d be three years ago. Not 100% his fault because coaching and FO play a role too.

To be fair

What I posted was extremely SSS. According to 82games.com, he’s played 2% of the team’s minutes at the SF position this season. Last season’s numbers look much better, although limited as well.

I agree with you, he needs to improve his game. I’m still in the group that wants to wait and see if he can figure it out, since a rebuilding team with cheap owners is going to need their young players to blossom to make the step up to a playoff contending squad.

I think Tyreke still shows enough flashes to continue on the path we’re on. And generally speaking, when he and DeMarcus play at a high level on the same night, the team is in contention to win the ballgame.

That’s not the worst base to work from for this franchise IMO.

My biggest problem with Evans

Is that he doesn’t seem to have learned anything since he came into the league. He’s doing the same moves. He’s taking the same shots with the same bad form and making the same mistakes. He still has no left hand.

If you look at Cousins, you can almost watch his progress from game to game. He backslides occasionally, like last night, and certain match-ups kill him, but you can point to various aspects of his game and show improvement.

I agree with you

I think Cousins is also being asked to develop in a more…I don’t know…normal manner for a young player. It’s still a huge learning curve, but he’s not being asked to run the offense either.

That's true.

But you’d think that he’d at least work on the left hand thing in the off-season. He doesn’t seem to be working hard on improving, and that’s frustrating.

I don't know that he's not working hard or didn't work hard in the offseason

I guess you can assume that, but I haven’t heard anything tangible to back it up.

If he'd worked on his left hand

I think we’d have seen it by now. And part of the laziness I’m seeing is how slowly he brings the ball up, and how long it takes him to start the offense.

And it’s always been that way.

He likes to have the ball in his hands. I get that. But shuffling up the court long enough to let the defense get set, then dribbling a couple of times, and then dribbling into the paint with nowhere to go happens way too often.

Is JT lazy?

He has a left hand suddenly this season.

The only problem with those stat's is that according to 82games he's only played 2% of the SF minutes

which means that the actual numbers are multiplied by 24, which makes a small variation look like a huge one.
Just sayin…

Thanks for popping in

What I posted was extremely SSS. According to 82games.com, he’s played 2% of the team’s minutes at the SF position this season.

Posted this before I see that you did make the distinction later in the thread

Yep

I know you were ready to mention the same thing to the guy who said this:

He looked good playing SF against Luol Deng.

Because that’s EXTREMELY small sample size.

I agree with you LPA.

There was that stretch, with that odd poorly-matched combination of players on the floor, where the coach’s decision of who to have out there was suspect. It didn’t work. Smart is a new coach and I would hope that when he plays back the tape, he will learn a few things from it. I’m trying to make excuses for him, but, the person who came out looking bad last night was Smart.

I'm pretty frustrated with Tyreke...

Yeah his overall line last night wasn’t bad but I still have yet to see any improvement from him. He still can’t shoot it from outside and he still forces his drive right. His decision making has been poor and most of his passes are not timed well. It’s also not a good sign when he’s shooting 40% from the field and most of his attempts are at the rim. Most players shooting that low are chucking it up from the outside. His instead are mainly missed layups or wild shots at the rim.

For me it's all about Reke's mindset

I’ve been trying to temper my Reke-bashing and I think you can definitely see an improvement under Coach Smart. But if you don’t have a jumper DON’T constantly shoot them with 10-15 sec. on the clock. He did that on the very first possession last night. Then later after a bad shot, it was a six point swing after Outlaw fouled Fields on the other end. Those kind of things kill a team. Reke is improving, but the lack of veteran leadership is incredibly frustrating.

I think maybe you're confusing results with process

Tyreke’s ultimate improvement as a player is going to rely on him starting to hit that jumper in game action. And it’s one thing to make jumpshots in the gym, it’s another to get comfortable shooting them in game action.

If it’s a wide open shot, I’m ok with Reke taking it. The problem is when he’s reverting to his bad habits when taking those shots. Coach Smart (or someone on the coaching staff) should be in his ear every time he falls back into bad form.

If it's a wide open shot with 15 seconds left on the shot clock I'm NOT ok with Reke taking it

They usually miss badly, ricochet out to the free throw line and an opposing player grabs it in full stride on the way to an easy fast break basket. He can get his “game time” experience shooting jumpers when the clock is running out.

Yeah I try to temper it as well but it's pretty frustrating watching the same thing every night.

His jumper is just bad….Larry Hughes bad. When I watch his play, I start to question how hard he really works during the off season. For example, Derrick Rose made it a point to be a better shooter before his 3rd year in the league and ended up nailing over 1 three a game and winning the MVP. Not suggesting that MVP is in Tyreke’s future (because it’s not on so many different levels) but trying to point out his work ethic. When we get that little youtube clip of him making 12 jumpers in a row during the offseason, we all start to discuss his improved jump shot. I was never impressed with those little clips because he’s doing it at half speed and it shows when he tries to translate that into the regular season.

I’m not trying to be irrational but I think it’s clear Tyreke has yet to improve and facet of his game and the question is whether he’s regressing or not. His stats say he is. I tend to blame his supporting cast and the Kings coaching/FO situation…so I wouldn’t say he’s regressing but he’s definitely not where we thought he’d be three years ago.

I think this has more to do to our energy level on 2nd game of back to backs

Kings on 0 days rest per yahoo sports:

87.0 PPG
36.8 FG%
23.7 3PT%
43.7 RPG
14.8 AST
14.9 TOs

1 day rest:

93.6 PPG
40.8 FG%
32.6 3PT%
43.1 RPG
17.3 AST
14.1 TOs

2 days rest:

98.8 PPG
46.9 FG%
36.4 3PT%
45.8 RPG
18.3 AST
16.0 TOs

3+ days rest:

100.0 PPG
46.7 FG%
50.0 3PT%
40.0 RPG
16.0 AST
11.0 TOs

As you can see, we have been terrible as a team on 0 days rest, and the stats scale up on days when we have rest. The only game with 3+ days was the Laker game on opening night. I think if this season was spread out more like a normal NBA season we would have about 5-6 more wins. More days off means more practice time, more time to watch film, more time to heal injuries, and just more rest time to heal the body.

Every team gets the same amount of rest though

Wouldn’t other teams get better too?

chenp22 - February 16, 2012 reply

Probably, but it is natural for this to have a more adverse affect on this Kings team

Average age is 24, our two building blocks are 21 and 22. Our team captain is 27, and injured through the last month. And our new head coach has just over one season under his belt, trying to install his system on the fly.

We introduced 7 new rotation players that were not in last year’s camp.

Add in the VERY road heavy 1st half of the schedule, where most days they get off are spent traveling, reducing practice time and film time.

I agree, every team is going through it, but it doesnt mean it affects every team the same.

Some of that may have to do with the fact that Smarts practices came with multi days off

When he first took over we seldom had more than one day off and that was spent traveling, when the schedule did start to lighten up, he got some practices in and made some changes. Better defense of the fast break and quicker outlet passes to get out into the fast break. Later he made some defensive changes. Now it seems like the more he adds , the more the team forgets about the first things he inputted.

"Now it seems the more he adds, the more the team forgets about the first things . ."

LOL. I love my Kings, but it does look like Petrie has cornered the market on lovable knuckleheads these days.

betweentheeyes - February 16, 2012 reply

The Kings only have 36 minutes

They take one quarter off every game.

Went to game in NYC last night

Was in town on business and was able to get a ticket outside of MSG. Let me start by saying the Linsanity thing was exciting…there was a noticeable buzz that was exciting to experience. I get to my seat and it’s next to an older, african american gentlemen who is with his grandson. We talked throughout the game and I found out he had played for Manhattan College in the late 60’s…he still had a slender, athletic build. He talked about how th Linsanity thing was great and how he was more excited that Lin was passing the ball great in the game and that the karma was so great with the Knicks with him running the show. As the game went on he could feel my frustration with the Kings and he was very careful with his words as to not offend me but the jist of his comments were….“You can tell alot about a team by how they play when they are behind big on the road. Good teams use even more team play tor try to get back into the game….bad teams get even worse by just worrying about getting their own.” He watched some more then commented that “Fer-dette is the only guy you got lookin for others” As him and his grandson were leaving with about 5 minutes left he said…watch the rest of the game and watch how many shots #7 gets" and on cue a kid walks buy in front of us with a sign held up…“Free Jimmer Fredette” and that just about summed up the night

Pdidd - February 16, 2012 reply

Thanks for sharing.

That must have been very frustrating to be in NYC, have an opportunity to go to the game, only to watch the Kings play so poorly.

Sounds like you had some interesting kibitzing with one of the local Knicks’ fans.

We certainly have had our share of watching our team revert to iso play. Jimmer is a very unselfish player, almost to a fault. As this gentleman pointed out, the good teams use even more team play to try to get back into the game. Oh vey, we are not there, yet.

LOL

I just noticed the actual page link to this article.

Well played, Mauer.

This speaks to another problem the Kings have, of identifying where players are on the floor and getting it to them in a position they’re comfortable.

You know what would fix that problem? A good point guard.

You mean one that doesn't get into the offense with 12 seconds left, or one who turns it over after dribbling into a double team, or one who doesn't miss all of their shots until the last two minutes of the game only to start making them?

Yeah that would be a nice sight.

That would be:

Tyreke, Jimmer, and Isaih respectively.

Love Isaih’s game but I don’t see future starter in him. I see a very good spark off the bench who can run the offense.

Jimmer needs to work on his handles. And his confidence.

Tyreke is meant for running an offense. When you tell him to do something other than just score, he gets confused. He’s better at focusing on his strengths without having to worry about running an offense.

Yes.

You mean like Jose Calderon?

That's your crutch for every "Tyreke is NaPG" argument.

“Calderon is a point guard but the Raptors suck on offense and he’s terrible on defense.” Am I right??

Jose Calderon:

PER: 17.8
TS%: .557
AST %: 45.9

PLAYOFFS

PER: 20.8
TS%: .553
AST%: 49.3

Yes I will take that. But you’ll just point out “that’s there’s two sides of the court” to justify your argument that a PG upgrade isn’t a solution. You’re so entrenched in the “Tyreke is a PG” belief that we could get Chris Paul and you would be upset.

Calderon is probably not the answer to all our problems. But you have to admit he would get us better shots.

I don't consider it a crutch

I see it as a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks the only way to skin the NBA cat is to have a “traditional” point guard. Some great teams (and offenses) have ‘em, some don’t. Some shitty teams (and offenses) have ‘em, some don’t.

And yes, the “traditionalists” rarely talk about defense or rebounding (as you didn’t address it above), which is where I think Tyreke will give us a huge advantage down the road.

The best Kings team we’ve seen in these parts didn’t have a traditional point guard. Shouldn’t this alone tell us that it’s not mandatory?

Tyreke is lazy on defense.

Decent rebounder, but doesn’t rotate and sags off his man way too often.

Sometimes

A little too often, certainly. But when he’s efforting on defense, he’s damn good.

Is he gliding a bit due to the energy expense on offense, or lack of physical conditioning? Maybe, or maybe he’s just occasionally lazy.

I’m willing to see if that changes over time.

It should have changed by now.

I will grant that we had a coach who didn’t bother to teach him anything, and now we have a new coach who says he’s trying, but I don’t see Tyreke attempting to do anything different.

On the ball, he can be a very good defender. But he often isn’t. And his team defense is pretty ineffective.

He’s a big guy and should have been able to bother Lin last night. But he didn’t.

Disagree

I see Tyreke trying to do plenty different overall, but he certainly backslides from time to time.

His usage and turnover rates are down, his assist rate is up, and his shots per 36 are down from last season. I’m not sure how he’s not attempting to do anything different.

Maybe the results are better

But name one thing that Evans has added to his game since his rookie season.

He was ROY in his rookie season

He set the bar pretty damn high.

I agree that he has a lof of work to do. I disagree that he won’t do it and won’t improve. You obviously see it differently.

Why hasn't there really been any sign of improvement?

Will he suddenly come in to camp next season with a technically sound jump shot, a mid range game and the ability to go to his left? These have been flaws since he came in to the league and if he’s worked to improve these things, why haven’t they improved?

Not saying he can’t improve, but it strikes me as odd that he hasn’t improved, assuming he’s working on his game. DMC’s progression seems more natural- fits and starts, sure, but there’s tangible improvement there. If Tyreke has been working on his game, where are the signs of improvement?

You know who coached him his first two + seasons right?

That's been erased from my mind

But don’t refresh my memory because I have a feeling that I don’t want to remember!

I would say he's done a much better job

of finding guys at the rim after defense collapses on him. The problem is our other guys don’t cut to the rim often enough.

Who said anything about mandatory??

The problem Aykis pointed out is that we don’t get our players shots where they are comfortable. I think a good PG would solve that problem for this team. I don’t think Tyreke is that guy. Do you think Calderon would get us better shots? I do. But I’m not saying to go trade for the guy.

No I didn’t mention rebounding because who cares about a PG’s rebounding? Defense? Yes you hope he is a good defender. But I am willing to overlook any defensive deficiencies if that PG can run an offense and set up my players with good shots (Nash).

I looked at my original post and the comments that followed and nowhere did I see the word “traditional”. I said a "good’ PG. It’s an area we are lacking in and a position Petrie has tried to address through trades (Parker, Williams, and Teague) and the draft (Jimmer and Thomas). This team right now needs an upgrade at the point guard position IMO. I never said every team needs a traditional point guard to be successful.

Ah, ok

No I didn’t mention rebounding because who cares about a PG’s rebounding? Defense? Yes you hope he is a good defender. But I am willing to overlook any defensive deficiencies if that PG can run an offense and set up my players with good shots (Nash).

See, I’m looking at the whole package. You think that stuff is less important, which is fine.

And I don’t know why you’re worked up about the word “traditional”. That is, in essence, what you’re looking for, all semantics aside.

I don't think stuff is less important.

I said that I would hope the PG is a good defender. But there is going to be give and take with every player.

You weigh that players good attributes against the negatives. You’ll live with your center not giving you too much on offense if he is a solid rebounder and defender/shot blocker. You’ll live with your SF not having great handles if he can shoot and slash.

If all you want is player that have the whole package that you are looking at you’re roster will be pretty thin. Plus you can get players that are available to you. If the “whole package” player isn’t there you go with the one that best fits your need. You don’t really get to pick and choose. Unless your the Heat. I feel that right now this team needs a PG that can get us better shots.

And honestly, do you really think GM’s look at a PG’s rebounding rate as a serious factor when deciding to acquire him??

I don’t think stuff is less important.

And honestly, do you really think GM’s look at a PG’s rebounding rate as a serious factor when deciding to acquire him??

So you are or are not saying that stuff is less important?

I think his point being

that you should be looking at a team’s needs as much as a player’s strength. I love Tyreke’s defensive rebounding, but as far as out team goes, is that what the King’s team needs most out of the point guard position? Again, I love the contribution it makes to our team, as we have not been a good rebounding team on the defensive end this year, but I think having an excellent facilitator running the point (whether that is Tyreke or someone else), is more important than an extra rebound and a half from the PG position.

Answer one of my question first.

Since you haven’t answered any questions I have asked you. Such as:

Do you think Calderon would get us better shots?

Who (in this thread) said having a traditional PG is mandatory for success?

Do you really think GM’s look at a PG’s rebounding rate as a serious factor when deciding to acquire him?

Answers

1. Maybe
2. You did, for this basketball team (I’m sure you’ll argue semantics with me)
3. I think they look at the whole package.

Answer me this. Do you think a GM would look at a guy like Calderon, with the snazzy assist rate and A/T ratio and wonder why that Toronto offense is still one of the least efficient in the league?

You just can't give a direct answer can you?

I stated that I think Calderon would get us better shots. But you can’t give a firm opinion or answer.

I never said a traditional PG was mandatory for this team to have success. I said a good PG would solve the problem of us not getting guys shots where they are comfortable. The words “traditional” and “mandatory” were introduced to this argument by you. And I don’t see how "good’ equals “traditional”. You can be a good PG without being “traditional”. Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook come to mind as examples.

Yes (firm answer) GM’s look at the whole package for every player they are evaluating. But not all players are going to have every attribute you want. If one is available to you you sign him. But if one isn’t available with those qualities you’re going to compromise depending on team need.

To your Calderon question: yes I believe GM’s would look at that. That’s probably why he hasn’t been traded. But they will also look at the players around him and wonder if he could do more for a team with more talent. He was the PG for a playoff Toronto team. So he’s proven he can play for a team with playoff talent.

I answered your questions. Now please answer mine with clear responses not vague statements.

Do you think Calderon would get us better shots? Yes or no?

Do you really think GM’s look at a PG’s rebounding rate as a serious factor when deciding to acquire him? Not the whole package. Rebounding.

Unlike you

I rarely answer any hypothetical question with absolute certainty. Maybe Jose Calderon would get us better shots, maybe not.

The important question is “would we be a better team with Jose Calderon than Tyreke Evans as our lead guard?”.

Quit obsessing over the rebounding question. It’s part of the overall package, as is the defense. If you don’t think a GM cares about those things when evaluating a player, there’s no point in arguing with you.

So answer me this – would you trade Tyreke Evans straight up for Jose Calderon right now?

You rarely answer any hypothetical questions with certainty

but you ask me one and want an answer? Seems a little hypocritical. Have a good evening.

LOL

Yeah, you too.

You don't have to have a traditional point guard

But this inexperienced Kings team, the youngest in the NBA, DOES need one. I’m sure you could plug Reke into the Spurs offense as the starting point guard or playmaking 2 or whatever and it would work pretty well. This team is not the Spurs.

So you remove a guy from a position where he could be great

Because the lesser players around him (outside of maybe one) need someone different?

How about you change the players around him?

Yeah - maybe have him share floor general duties with another combo guard

Or surround him with more savvy players. Works for me. I love Jimmer and IT I just wish Petrie could’ve brought in SOMEONE better than Reke at directing a young team assuming you’re not going to get several talented veterans.

So - if not a traditional point guard, then two playmaking combo guards in the starting lineup

And I don’t know that Jimmer or IT is the answer there, but I guess it’s worth a shot.

Playmaking is missing

What is the Number 1 play that Killed Us in the Pheonix, Chicago, and NY games? The Pick and Roll. Not only don’t we know how to defend it , we can’t even run it.

The number 1 option of the Pick & Roll, is get the defense to switch, Then you have your big on their small and your guard on their big.

When was the last time Tyreke even ran a pick & roll, let alone take advantage of a switch. Teams don’t even bother switching, because Tyreke doesn’t cut hard off the pick, and isn’t a threat to take an outside shot if the defender goes under the pick.

Tyreke doesn’t have the outside shot to run a P & R, and Thornton doesn’t have the ball handling skills. Until IT or Jimmer are given the role of starting PG, this team will never be a threat running the P&R.

As far as defending it, I’m not sure why Smart lets it happen but more often than not, our big doesn’t even go out to contest & help our guard. Cuz & JJ & JT never even move to try and help our guards when they get picked. They just wait back and try and top the ball when they drive into the paint. That is unless they just stop and hit the open 15 fter from the FT Line.

This is something these guys should have learned in middle school, and the fact that this play is beyond their capability, says volumes about their BBIQ.

This is an NBA level coaching staff

They have to know our P/R defense sucks. So why is it allowed to keep sucking? Why are we burned the same way over and over again? We have a defensive philosophy for this, right? So why doesn’t look like it? I honestly don’t know. Are the players just not executing? If not, why are they being allowed to keep making the same mistakes? I wish I knew…

Regarding Chuck Hayes

My blind arse guess is that the guy is playing hurt, and the injuries have not helped his conditioning. Every NBA player says that there is gym shape and then there is NBA game shape, and you can only get into true NBA game shape through games and scrimmage time at practice – that time on the treadmill or throwing weights around does not get you NBA game ready (though it certainly helps).

If Hayes is playing hurt, that’s as much on the coaching and medical staff as it is on Hayes. If he is healthy but playing his way back into shape after his layoffs, that’s the nature of the beast. To me it appears that he’s still hurt and should be shelved until after the all star break.

I do know this – it is highly unusual for a player like Hayes, a guy with a reputation of being a hustler and team player that is always ready to play and does all the little things that other players won’t do, to suddenly become a fat, lazy slob. And I think to infer that he has become that is akin to Grant Napear calling Bobby Jackson or Kevin Martin soft for not playing hurt.

I’m disappointed in Hayes’ play, but I think that most of it is the result of his shoulder injury. If the coaching staff continues to call his number, I can’t yet hold Chuck Hayes fully accountable for the result.

Disagree

Except for the “highly unusual” part – although I’d amend that to “highly disappointing”

He was overweight when the season started, despite having an extended offseason and motivation to get in shape due to free agency. Even if he was in great shape when the season started (which he wasn’t) a shoulder injury is no excuse for blowing up… not when you have nothing to do but work out, do cardio, and have all your meals custom-prepared by whatever chef you want to hire.

I’m not handy with links and such but google image search the guy from his time in houston. he was lean. He barely looks like the same person. He looks like he athletically does not belong on the court with nba players.

regarding “game shape…” yes. That’s true. But a precursor to getting into game shape is you working by yourself, or with whoever you want to, to get as close as possible. He obviously didn’t do it.

Someone above said he looks like a d-league player. he doesn’t. If he showed up tomorrow at an open d-league tryout and entered as John Smith, he wouldn’t last 5 minutes, because he has no game. he can’t jump and he’s too out of shape to even chase down rebounds as his feet are covered in cement.

Leaving aside conditioning issues – his play has been awful. He was billed as a good passer, and he has not shown that at all. We knew he was marginal offensively, but you have to be able to make a layup.

I blame Chuck for not being ready to play, and I blame the coaches for playing him anyway. Oh, and the implied bash on Petrie for yet another bad contract.

sorry, dead horse… you don’t deserve this

What scares me?

He’s had a season like this before.

too lazy to go back and find it

and somebody (maybe you?) posted that he really has had 2 good years out of 6 or 7.

/hazy recollection

something interesting that I thought of last night whilst watching the game in a drunken angry state… for a gm that supposedly favors offense and shooting – GP has really put together a roster of abysmal offensive talent

hayes hickson outlaw (I believe we had this frontline on the court at the same time – which should only happen in “12th man” mode) on NBA Live, whiteside, greene, salmons, thompson, all very marginal offensive players.

makes one wonder just what the Geoffster was valuing when he constructed this roster.

Yeah, that was me

Two decent seasons, a few middling seasons, and a few really bad seasons.

He might be the Aubrey Huff of the NBA.

wow. well done.

Rec'd

For the though of Hayes pulling out a rally thong at the Kings championship parade.

Your point is well taken.

There was a younger leaner version of Chuck Hayes, although I don’t think Hayes is as out-of-shape as some have made him out to be. He is a pretty solid muscular guy, but not real lean either. He could be in better physical condition.

Right now, though, he looks like he is playing hurt. Could do him well to spend his time on the stationary bike or treadmill, while his shoulder is healing. Just my opinion.

He's gained at least 20 pounds...The pictures speak louder than anything I could type.

THEN…

NOW…

I don't know when the Chuck Hayes picture you posted was taken, but he looks younger.

Here is another, more recent one.

He's still a lot heavier now than he was then.

Look at the neck. Look at the lack of definition. Look at the cheek bones.

Agree. He is smoother now, than he was as a rocket, with no definition.

Looks fat as a Rocket too, though even worse in Kings photo...

I like the example of Kevin Love. Dude dropped 25 pounds over the off season and is having his best year ever. The more body fat, the slower your reaction time. Simple as that.

DeMarcus is shining example. From 14/9 to 16/11. It seems like only foul trouble prevents nightly 20/10 games.

And Tyreke has dropped at least 5 pounds from start of season, and it shows in his burst of speed. If he would have come to camp the way he looks now, I think he would be at 20/6/6 instead of 17/5/5. Basketball is game of inches, on the court and around the waist line.

Wow. I didn't know Love dropped that much weight. Props to him.

Demarcus didn’t even lose that much weight, but what a difference maker that has been for him. He looks better, more definition to his arms, and seems to have more endurance down the stretch. I like that he made the effort over the off season.

Same thing with Tyreke, but I would have rather seen Tyreke come in leaner at the beginning of the season. He looks great now, but the season is half over.

It isn’t easy to be lean, as anyone who works out on a regular basis knows. At an elite level, it is imperative for optimal performance.

He was averaging double digit rebounds a game before his injury

I don’t recall him being overweight when the season began, but he sure seemed to come back from the shoulder injury in bad condition.

And I still think 5 years and $21m is a fair price to pay for your 1st big off the bench, which is what Hayes should be. I don’t see it as a bad contract per se, but it sure as hell wasn’t the signing that I waited all these years for.

Then he should sit out until he is healthy.

We need him for his rebounding and defense. If his injury is preventing him from contributing in those areas then he shouldn’t be on the floor because he offers little else.

Or as I said earlier,

To me it appears that he’s still hurt and should be shelved until after the all star break.

Yes.

Agree with Section. Chuck effected by injuries, etc.

There’s no way Hayes suddenly became a different, and lazy player. Only 5 games ago (I think it was then), Smart said Hayes was the team MVP that game because of his impact on the team overall. Hayes needs rest and will be back to his old self.

Much bigger problem is Reke, Ferdetter, IT non PG. Like many have stated…Enough already with the Reke at PG experiment. He doesn’t want to be a PG, and he’s not a PG. Jimmer can’t dribble and looks like he’s never seen a double before. IT can’t run the half court. Petrie has screwed this up royally. A PG and 3 were off season priorities, and he didn’t do anything.

amonk81 - February 16, 2012 reply

I've watched every minute of every game this year (except the last 6 minutes or so of the REALLY horrible blowouts)

and I’ll go with what I see. Smart is sticking up for his guy.

Chuck may be affected by injuries. But he wasn’t in shape in the first place. He doesn’t need “rest.” He needs to do some good old fashioned road work and mix in a salad.

I don’t think he’s a “lazy” player when he’s on the court, but if you aren’t in tip top shape and trying to be an NBA “big” at 6’6", without any offensive skills, that battle has been lost. You can’t get away with being undersized, undertalented, AND out of shape.

Until he gets in shape he should not be getting any minutes. Not even ahead of Hickson.

Agreed 100% with

Until he gets in shape he should not be getting any minutes. Not even ahead of Hickson.

With the exception of the sparse minutes needed to help him get back into shape. But until he’s there, he should not be getting any tangible minutes, foul trouble among the bigs notwithstanding.

I agree - Hayes knows how to defend

He moves his feet, keeps other big men from getting to their spots, he forces a couple turnovers or shot clock violations every game. And even playing with one arm I’ve seen him make some nice passes.

But, he's vertically challenged and is easily outrebounded by anyone with length or leaping ability

Donte has 53 defensive rebounds in 316 mins and Chuck has 63 in 373. But Chuck plays around the basket, and Donte plays more than half of his minutes at the SF away from the basket.

To be fair,

Hayes was not being “easily outrebounded” prior to his injury, when he was averaging better than 10 boards a game.